Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
jonnyrig
Trad climber
formerly known as hillrat
|
|
Thanks Patrick. No idea what moose tastes like, but elk is delicious.
For clarity, I dont trophy hunt. I fill the freezer. I dont particularly care if others do, so long as 1. the animal doesnt go to waste and 2. whatever management agency oversees the species does its job to maintain a healthy population. Far as Im concerned, the real goal of all wildlife management should be to maintain as close to a natural balance as current conditions allow. Hopefully that means I get to continue hunting, as I think the elk and deer belong there more than the cattle and are better eating anyway.
|
|
the albatross
Gym climber
Flagstaff
|
|
It should be at least mentioned that the man who bought the Black Rhino hunt has received a number of death threats to he and his family. Presumably from animal rights activists. (Just to be clear, I don't think it is cool to hunt Rhinos or any other endangered species).
I am not a trophy hunter, what little bit of hunting I have done is to provide high quality food for my family.
As a rockclimber and hunter, I am particularly disgusted by the "culture" of some rock climbers. Some of these people have no respect for the land or for past or future generations. There are even major climbing publications (like R&I) that glorify criminal activity among climbers. For a user group that pays so little towards conservation, it sometimes sickens me to call myself a climber.
I've already paid well over $300 this year (yes, the past 5 weeks) for the privilege of hunting and fishing for this year. $57 hunt / fish license, $80 boat / trailer registration / $60 entrance fee / boat permit for Lake Powell, and $138 towards the lottery to get the chance to harvest a cow elk for food ($125 of which will be refunded if I am not drawn). As we have seen, a good portion of these fees go towards conservation efforts.
How much have you climbers paid this year for the privilege to climb on public lands? How has this money been spent to preserve climbing for the present and for future generations?
|
|
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
SLO, Ca
|
|
Sanctioned hunting is probably last on the list of threats to African wildlife. If the Namibian government thinks money from letting someone shoot a pre-identified, older non-reproducing male will assist in conservation efforts and the local economy then they should go for it. Same with all African hunting.
|
|
the albatross
Gym climber
Flagstaff
|
|
Interesting conservation work going on in Namibia, in fact it appears this model is being followed in other parts of the world. Here is a link to the World Wildlife Fund:
http://worldwildlife.org/press-releases/namibian-government-and-people-lauded-for-conservation-successes
Windhoek, Namibia – Global conservation organization WWF has recognized Namibia for its outstanding conservation achievements.
The Namibian President, His Excellency Hifikepunye Pohamba, was presented October 26th with a WWF Gift to the Earth Award – the second the country has received – by Chief Emeka Anyaoku, former President of WWF International. The ceremony took place in the Namibian capital Windhoek on the occasion of the Adventure Travel World Summit.
Over the past two decades, the people and government of Namibia in South-West Africa have developed a communal conservancy movement, whereby local communities are fully involved in the ownership and management of their natural resources and wildlife – for the benefit of people and nature alike.
“Namibia’s achievements are impressive and inspiring,” said Jim Leape, Director General of WWF International. “I congratulate President Pohamba, the Namibian government and support organizations, and all the dedicated local community members who have demonstrated the concept of people living in harmony with nature, WWF’s global mission.”
There are 79 communal conservancies – community wildlife management units – across Namibia, covering one fifth of the country’s land and involving one in ten of its citizens.
Wildlife populations in conservancies – such as zebra, oryx, giraffe, buffalo and lion – are recovering, providing the basis for successful environmentally responsible tourism ventures and the sustainable use of wildlife. The poaching of elephants and rhinos has also been dramatically reduced.
“The strong commitment to nature conservation of the Namibian government and people is truly unique,” said Jim Leape. “Namibia was the first country in Africa to enshrine conservation in its Constitution, and almost half of its land is under some form of conservation management. Namibia’s empowerment of rural communities to manage their wildlife resources – while providing incentives for them to do so – is visionary.”
Countries across Africa, Asia and Latin America are now studying the Namibian model of communal conservation to learn how they might apply it themselves.
The Gift to the Earth is WWF’s most prestigious Award for governments, companies or public sector institutions.
|
|
John M
climber
|
|
Save a rhino,, SHOOT A PETA MEMBER TODAY!
you recognize that some hunters aren't conservationists
you believe that most are
you hate to be bunched in with those hunters who aren't
yet you are perfectly willing to label anyone who supports any aspect of PETA.. even the good stuff as somehow evil.
This is why people get pissed at you.
|
|
survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
|
|
How did I know this would be a Ron thread?
|
|
John M
climber
|
|
Gee Ron.. those of us who love animals have been dealing with stupid hunters who do stupid and mean ass sh#t our whole lives. Animals have been slaughtered for sport. Many wounded and left to die a gruesome death. Does that mean I should be pissed and lump all hunters into that category as you are doing with those you label PETA people? I know many people in groups like PETA who have done many good things. You know many hunters who have done good things.
Should the acts of the few destroy the good works of the many?
|
|
the albatross
Gym climber
Flagstaff
|
|
This thread illustrates the complexity of some of the "hunting" issues.
Earlier today I stated I did not support Rhino hunting. After some research, primarily on the website of the World Wildlife Foundation, I changed my opinion on the subject. If some man is willing to donate over $400,000 to hunt an old, beat up Rhino it seems like it could be a good investment in the future of the species. Of greater threat to the species are the Rhino poachers. Money spent by hunters such as this man goes to provide game wardens, salaries, etc.
(as an aside, it is unbelievable some folks have this sort of money to throw around - that's 5-10 years work for most of us).
Oh by the way I donated $40 to the Access Fund this morning. And will spend at least twice that amount this spring on anchor materials for upgrades, etc. on the regional cliffs.
Edit: John M, I agree. There are rotten apples in all aspects of humanity. There are people poaching wildlife for money just as there are rock climbers that may be doing things which are questionable. It is best to keep an open mind and realize that people are unique and individual.
|
|
John M
climber
|
|
it is a dick move.
|
|
karen roseme
Mountain climber
san diego
|
|
“Wild animals never kill for sport. Man is the only one to whom the torture and death of his fellow creatures is amusing in itself."–James A. Froude
“Heaven is by favor; if it were by merit your dog would go in and you would stay out. Of all the creatures ever made [man] is the most detestable. Of the entire brood, he is the only one…that possesses malice. He is the only creature that inflicts pain for sport, knowing it to be pain.” –Mark Twain
“Killing animals for sport, for pleasure, for adventures, and for hides and furs is a phenomenon which is at once disgusting and distressing. There is no justification in indulging in such acts of brutality.” –His Holiness the Dalai Lama
“When a man wantonly destroys one of the works of man we call him a vandal. When he destroys one of the works of god we call him a sportsman.” –Joseph Wood Krutch
“I ask people why they have deer heads on their walls. They always say because it's such a beautiful animal. There you go. I think my mother is attractive, but I have photographs of her.”
― Ellen DeGeneres
Deer hunting would be fine sport, if only the deer had guns.” –William S. Gilbert
|
|
karen roseme
Mountain climber
san diego
|
|
Can you define Irony Ron,
How about saving endangered animals so you can have fun killing them.
The key word there is fun.
Pretty sick!
|
|
John M
climber
|
|
Save a rhino,, SHOOT A PETA MEMBER TODAY!
that isn't an expression of feeling. you may have intended it that way, but that isn't' how it came out.
|
|
anita514
Gym climber
Great White North
|
|
ooh I remember that retard who shot the albino moose. such a rare sight to see... and he killed it.
someone should take him out back and shoot him in the face.
|
|
John M
climber
|
|
Plus its not the point. you have complained about people lumping all hunters together with the worst of those. Yet you do that to people who support the humane treatment of animals. That was my point.
|
|
jonnyrig
Trad climber
formerly known as hillrat
|
|
This seems to be the way of things, from international politics on down to coffee cooler talk at the office:
Pick an extreme or you,re worthless!
and frankly im sick of it.
The fact is that there are good and bad aspects to things on both sides of the coin, and we task our land and wildlife agencies with the duty to moniter conditions and determine what is the right balance for land use, wildlife health, and public usage of both. Sometimes thats delicate, and often decisions have to be made that really dont satisfy anyone. Then too, there are decisions that are blatantly bad, and in those cases you have to wonderjust wtf is going on.
Now in terms of hunter support of conservation, some of that is mandated via taxes and license fees etc, and some of is accomplished through private contributions, clubs, and large private organizations like Ducks Unlimited and REMF. How much do hunters spend? We seem to lack comprehensive data. Suffice to say it is significant.
Whereas hunting on the African continent is concerned, Namibia maybe doing a fine job, but there are plenty of areas that are not. In some of them the evidence does not support hunting to be as effective a source of conservation as some claim. Instead, picture safaris are vastly more supportive of economy and conservation. Does that mean hunting couldnt be a resource? I think it means in those places they lack well-run hunting efforts. Or, maybe the ecology is too weak to support it.
Either way, they lack the resources to make those determinations. This comes word of mouth from family that have been there, and my better half who lived there doing conservation work on the ground.
Some would argue, btw, that my better half is just a liberal hippie eco thug whose goal is more in alignment with Greenpeace than with Boone and Crocket... maybe. But she hunts with me, 4x4s, and eats meat. In short, she recognizes a balance. But she keeps a keen eye toward preservation and leave no trace ethics. She believes in the science and the evidence. If she can do that, why the hell cant more people?
|
|
jonnyrig
Trad climber
formerly known as hillrat
|
|
Just as a point, some animals DO kill for sport. Mountain lions killed a bunch of sheep down south of here for no particular reason and left them, as a very singular example.
Too many people raised on the bullshit misrepresentations of Disney, methinks. Animals dont talk, and bears and bunnies dont go skipping through the forest holding hands singing cumbaya.
|
|
John M
climber
|
|
hopeless.. you can't see how you act. fine.. you call for shooting PETA members. I call for shooting you. turn about is fair play. right?
|
|
skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
|
|
For the OP. Self reliance. THat is probably one of the biggest reasons people hunt, that feeling of self reliance.
|
|
ncrockclimber
climber
The Desert Oven
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 7, 2014 - 04:03pm PT
|
This seems to be the way of things, from international politics on down to coffee cooler talk at the office:
Pick an extreme or you,re worthless!
and frankly im sick of it.
The fact is that there are good and bad aspects to things on both sides of the coin, and we task our land and wildlife agencies with the duty to moniter conditions and determine what is the right balance for land use, wildlife health, and public usage of both. Sometimes thats delicate, and often decisions have to be made that really dont satisfy anyone. Then too, there are decisions that are blatantly bad, and in those cases you have to wonderjust wtf is going on.
Now in terms of hunter support of conservation, some of that is mandated via taxes and license fees etc, and some of is accomplished through private contributions, clubs, and large private organizations like Ducks Unlimited and REMF. How much do hunters spend? We seem to lack comprehensive data. Suffice to say it is significant.
Whereas hunting on the African continent is concerned, Namibia maybe doing a fine job, but there are plenty of areas that are not. In some of them the evidence does not support hunting to be as effective a source of conservation as some claim. Instead, picture safaris are vastly more supportive of economy and conservation. Does that mean hunting couldnt be a resource? I think it means in those places they lack well-run hunting efforts. Or, maybe the ecology is too weak to support it.
Either way, they lack the resources to make those determinations. This comes word of mouth from family that have been there, and my better half who lived there doing conservation work on the ground.
Some would argue, btw, that my better half is just a liberal hippie eco thug whose goal is more in alignment with Greenpeace than with Boone and Crocket... maybe. But she hunts with me, 4x4s, and eats meat. In short, she recognizes a balance. But she keeps a keen eye toward preservation and leave no trace ethics. She believes in the science and the evidence. If she can do that, why the hell cant more people?
GREAT post!
In regards to the Namibian rhino hunt, taking into account that the rhino is past breeding age and assuming that the $400K goes to conservation, I don't see it as a totally bad thing. It is a compromise, and the end result is positive. However, it doesn't make the practice of "trophy" hunting any less deplorable. It doesn't reduce my disgust or the fact that the "hunter" is only paying just so he can slaughter an endangered rhino and calls it sport.
Like most things in life, this issue is full of gray areas. It is sad that a number of posters on this thread are just to f*#king stupid to understand that… Hi Ron.
|
|
jonnyrig
Trad climber
formerly known as hillrat
|
|
Shooting people is fine. They do a lot of that on the african continent too. And L.A. Not the middle east though, those guys learn about explosives. Hey, you know who wins a gunfight? The guy with a gun. Brilliant.
Lets do it! People are an overpopulated species anyway.
Yay for escalation and retribution!
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!