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karen roseme
Mountain climber
san diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 10, 2014 - 07:05pm PT
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Great links High Traverse!
Nature I want to go see them!
In the Dallas news today
Protesters rallied today near Southwest Airlines’ headquarters in Dallas, seeking an end to the carrier’s partnership with SeaWorld because of the marine-park giant’s treatment of orca whales and other sea mammals.
Southwest confirmed that animal activists dropped off a Change.org petition signed by more than 27,000 people at its main gate at its Dallas Love Field headquarters. Starting around 11 a.m., the activists also rallied at the corner of West Mockingbird Lane and Cedar Springs Road. The rally is supposed to last until 1 p.m.
“Southwest needs to understand that they are promoting animal cruelty seen in Blackfish if they continue to partner with SeaWorld as they have done for the last 25 years,” activist Robin Merritt says in her petition to Southwest CEO Gary Kelly on Change.org. “They do promotional deals, send out joint-press releases patting each other on the back, and are working hand in hand to profit from the misery of animals exploited for SeaWorld.”
Tell Southwest to stop promoting SeaWorld
http://www.change.org/petitions/southwest-airlines-stop-promoting-seaworld-animal-cruelty
http://www.change.org/petitions/southwest-airlines-stop-supporting-cruelty-at-seaworld
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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Jan 10, 2014 - 07:12pm PT
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karen, minus airfair it's going to be about $375 for three nights accommodations, transportation, zodiac charter, kayak tour. Email me if you really want to go. End of May or Early June.
I think Southwest is going to have a tough time breaking that corporate agreement. That's why they won't end the relationship soon. Once the contract is up I'll bet they don't renew.
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Russ Walling
Social climber
from Poofters Froth, Wyoming
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Jan 10, 2014 - 08:09pm PT
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^^^^
If you fly SouthWest to your sea animal love-fest you might as well put a shotgun right in Shamoo's blow-hole.
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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Jan 10, 2014 - 08:23pm PT
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Frontier Air. Cuz they got wild animals on the tails of their planes.
And it's "Shamu"
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Russ Walling
Social climber
from Poofters Froth, Wyoming
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Jan 10, 2014 - 08:28pm PT
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why would the cow of the sea not be "moo"?
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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Jan 10, 2014 - 08:33pm PT
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I always thought the Manatee was the Cow of the Sea....
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karen roseme
Mountain climber
san diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 10, 2014 - 09:09pm PT
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Reminds me of selfish cows from France Moi Moi Moi speaking of Manatees and Belugas,
SeaWorld is currently waging a battle to bring wild caught beluga whales into the US from Russia even though the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) denied the permit due to concerns of the animals' welfare. More than a dozen belugas have already prematurely died in SeaWorld's 'care' but they still want to capture more wild animals. The shameful list of SeaWorld's unethical treatment of animals can go on and on.
Let's stop these f*#kers!
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karen roseme
Mountain climber
san diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2014 - 12:53pm PT
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Fortunately, scientists are beginning to concentrate more on learning how the cetaceans use their massive brains, and less on coming up with ways to dismiss and diminish the evidence that we share this planet with other intelligent beings!!!
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jan 11, 2014 - 01:38pm PT
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Karen,
I understand where you are coming from, but I think you need to consider unintended consequences.
To a degree, it is like the single issue group supporting mountain lions. They got a law passed that made it illegal to hunt, or really even manage the lions. What's happened? They are wiping out the bighorn sheep, because now their population is not controlled.
My point is that there are a lot of moving parts in an ecosystem.
While I am not a fan of such parks, I would advocate that they have had a large effect on the public recognition of these animals, which were (particularly the whales) on the way to being eradicated. To a large degree, because people have actually seen these animals, they have developed a constituency: you.
I would be very concerned that once they are out of sight, they will be forgotten, and the whalers/fishermen will go at it again, and no one other than you will care.
I would also be careful about the logic that because SOME parks have poor systems of care, ALL should be abolished. Somewhat like saying because SOME schools are lousy, ALL schools should be closed.
How about we make the conditions more reasonable for care at all locations? I don't mean punitive measures disguised as reform, but really designed to shut them down through subterfuge.
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karen roseme
Mountain climber
san diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 12, 2014 - 10:20pm PT
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Sorry Ken M and Locker, I can't agree with you.
I think Sea World could provide an educational, entertaining experience without making wild animals do tricks for food.
They have the ability to pull the heart strings of children and adults everywhere without keeping these wild animals, who were meant to swim 100 miles per day in fishbowls.
They could build an IMAX movie theater and show incredible movies of whales and dolphins.
How about a ride that simulates being a whale or dolphin and swimming around other whales and dolphins.
These guys have 2.7 billion dollars a year to work with they need a NEW business model.
My Idea...
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Q- Ball
Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
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Jan 12, 2014 - 10:29pm PT
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Karen Roseme-
I understand you have an agenda, just one question.
If the populations are robust and secure, why ban fishing or captive situations?
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karen roseme
Mountain climber
san diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 12, 2014 - 11:07pm PT
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Q, we have a surplus of humans, 7 billion.
How would you feel about keeping some of the poor ones in cages and let the fight to the death for the entertainment of rich people?
Populations of some whales are somewhere between 20,000 to 80,000 world wide. Maybe there are a million dolphins worldwide.
Does that sound like a lot to you?
What if there were only 1 million humans left?
Whales and dolphins are probably at least as smart as we are. They live without harming the earth unlike us.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Jan 12, 2014 - 11:11pm PT
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How would you feel about keeping some of the poor ones in cages and let the fight to the death for the entertainment of rich people?
you mean like this guy?
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Jan 12, 2014 - 11:18pm PT
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I'm waiting for someone to bitch-slap that angry midget and while they're at it , polish the dolphin bitch...
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Jan 12, 2014 - 11:32pm PT
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jan 13, 2014 - 02:05am PT
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Meaning if nothing else, at least make it better for them...
You DISAGREE with that???...
Locker,
You have to understand that for zealots, that is EXACTLY the position. For them, having the worst conditions possible so as to produce the maximum amount of rage is the best possible outcome. Ironically, they are willing to sacrifice those animals for their agenda.
Can't say if that is true for Karen.
As an example of this logic, there is a proposal out there that would cut the rate of abortion in the poor by 80%...it would not force anyone to do anything, would not cost anything....and the anti-choice side is OPPOSED, because they prefer to have the maximum "carnage" possible, to gin up the rage of the base.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Jan 13, 2014 - 12:02pm PT
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And, like clockwork, Ron is here to defend big business and give the unsupportable opinion.
I think Sea World could provide an educational, entertaining experience without making wild animals do tricks for food.
Like the San Diego Safari Park? Animals in HUGE enclosures that people enter in a truck? I like that model, never liked seeing animals in cages. Depressed me.
FYI, on a scale of 1-10 this to me is like a 4. With Syria, climate change, nuclear arsenals in the hands of our biggest threats... yeah I can't get too riled up about this. Like the GMO people, it's a weird one to obsess over. I find it a bit arbritrary which animals are "cute" and which ones we eat. Pigs are smart as F*#K but we can't ride 'em, so food.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Jan 13, 2014 - 12:53pm PT
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Soooo TELL ME where i defend "big business" here..
How much knowledge has been gained by captive programs on the various species? Knowledge that would not be known if all were left in the wild? And what is the percentage of captive vs wild Orcas or dolphins?
To UNDERSTAND a species, it must be studied at close quarters. So indeed all those attributes mentioned here have been discovered through the very programs you now want stopped. Cant have it both ways..
It is to the little boys and girls, that MAY become so enthralled by them a new Oceanographer may be born. A new Veterinarian may be born. Thats who Sea world and such places are really for.
Killer whales- found in every ocean around the globe. The APEX predator of the ocean with no known natural enemy. In short THEY ARE DOING FINE and dandy. Try worrying about real problems instead. (This is misinformation)
They are the most widley distributed alpha predator of them all. And if Sea world wants a few - BFD...As also stated by the OP upthread, no one should even have a dog unless they can be with it 24/7..Really?
I get it - hippie conservationalists are often annoying bastards. However defending Sea Worlds actions saying that you can't have one without the other is lazy thinking and erroneous. A friend of mine works as a researcher for primate social behavior, how many little kids get to see the apes jump through hoops and throw poo poo at each other?
Orcas are data deficient, meaning multiple species may exist (Like Tigers) that we are inadvertently creating endangered.
I don't have a dog in this race, I'm not pushing any agenda. As I said, radical conservationalists are often unrealistic and heavily annoying (here's looking at you GMO crowd) yet that doesn't mean their message gets passed over. Sea World and other organizations that improperly treat their captive animals need to raise their standards, and more importantly operate with more transparency. You can't claim to be a habitat rehabilitation site and recieve tax dollars for your work while also operating as a for-profit industry worth billions. Just like your doctor can't be compensated for prescribing you medication, a for-profit 'conservation' business shouldn't be accepting government money while lining their pockets and hiring untrained staff for dangerous, unscientific jobs.
It is my belief that you don't have to throw the baby out with the bathwater, that it is possible to have ethical practices involved with not only studying these animals but educating youth. Most of my favorite animals that I've come to grow fond of I've not seen in captivity but out in the wild, where you walk in their environment and understand their world. Mountain Lions, bobcats, golden eagles... I don't need to see them jump through a hoop to appreciate them. I think that goes across the board.
I don't mean any disrespect, Ron, and I appreciate your comments. Sorry if I sounded crass but that's often how I inadvertantly come across :P lol.
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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Jan 13, 2014 - 01:21pm PT
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"A friend of mine works as a researcher for primate social behavior, how many little kids get to see the apes jump through hoops and throw poo poo at each other?"...
We get to see it every day on supertopo
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Jan 13, 2014 - 02:36pm PT
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Maybe something like this would be good for education purposes.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Video brought to you by lion whisperer kevin richardson
edit; It worked
And my point is that it wold be better to see all these animals in the natural environment.
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