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WBraun
climber
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Nov 22, 2013 - 09:10pm PT
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Just see ....
Stupid Americans trying to think for themselves.
So far it shows they can't and only do as they're told ........
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Nov 22, 2013 - 09:13pm PT
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Yes, I'm totally gonna lap up whatever Oliver Stoned throws up for me to diges.
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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Nov 23, 2013 - 03:00am PT
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Stupid Americans trying to think for themselves.
Actually, that seems to be the problem.
Curt
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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Nov 23, 2013 - 03:22am PT
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See the Final Report on the Collapse of World Trade Center Building 7, NIST
NCSTAR 1A, page 48, which states: “A more detailed analysis of the descent of the north face found . . . (2) a freefall descent over approximately eight stories at gravitational acceleration for approximately 2.25 s. . . . .”
This was an absolute bombshell admission by NIST, and it should have been the biggest media story of the century. Even though NIST only conceded free fall for one third of the collapse of WTC Building 7, any amount of free fall can only occur through expertly executed controlled demolition using carefully placed and perfectly timed explosives. Without saying the actual words, NIST’s announcement was essentially an announcement of controlled demolition of WTC Building 7, and therefore an announcement that there must have been some level of inside involvement with at least some of the events of 9/11.
More utter bullsh#t. From the actual NIST report:
To further clarify the descent of the north face, NIST recorded the downward displacement of a point near the center of the roofline from first movement until the north face was no longer visible in the video. Numerical analyses were conducted to calculate the velocity and acceleration of the roofline point from the time-dependent displacement data. The instant at which vertical motion of the roofline first occurred was determined by tracking the numerical value of the brightness of a pixel (a single element in the video image) at the roofline. This pixel became brighter as the roofline began to descend because the color of the pixel started to change from that of the building façade to the lighter color of the sky.
The approach taken by NIST is summarized in Section 3.6 of the final summary report, NCSTAR 1A (released Nov. 20, 2008; available at http://wtc.nist.gov/NCSTAR1/PDF/NCSTAR%201A.pdf); and detailed in Section 12.5.3 of NIST NCSTAR 1-9 (available at http://wtc.nist.gov/NCSTAR1/PDF/NCSTAR%201-9%20Vol%202.pdf);.
The analyses of the video (both the estimation of the instant the roofline began to descend and the calculated velocity and acceleration of a point on the roofline) revealed three distinct stages characterizing the 5.4 seconds of collapse:
Stage 1 (0 to 1.75 seconds): acceleration less than that of gravity (i.e., slower than free fall).
Stage 2 (1.75 to 4.0 seconds): gravitational acceleration (free fall)
Stage 3 (4.0 to 5.4 seconds): decreased acceleration, again less than that of gravity
This analysis showed that the 40 percent longer descent time—compared to the 3.9 second free fall time—was due primarily to Stage 1, which corresponded to the buckling of the exterior columns in the lower stories of the north face. During Stage 2, the north face descended essentially in free fall, indicating negligible support from the structure below. This is consistent with the structural analysis model which showed the exterior columns buckling and losing their capacity to support the loads from the structure above. In Stage 3, the acceleration decreased as the upper portion of the north face encountered increased resistance from the collapsed structure and the debris pile below.
Curt
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
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Nov 23, 2013 - 04:44am PT
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Bush said he wasn't in Dallas that day. HHHhhhhhhhhhmmmmmm.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
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Nov 23, 2013 - 05:03am PT
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Regarding JFK Assassination—Who do You Trust: Poppy Bush or Your Own Eyes?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x136109
At a memorial service for former President Gerald Ford, former President George Herbert Walker Bush asked us to dismiss "conspiracy theorists" and go with the Warren Commission Report as final word on the assassination.
George H.W. Bush’s Eulogy for Gerald R. Ford
The New York Times
Published: January 2, 2007
EXCERPT…
“After a deluded gunman assassinated President Kennedy (Bush laughed!), our nation turned to Gerald Ford and a select handful of others to make sense of that madness. And the conspiracy theorists can say what they will, but the Warren Commission report will always have the final definitive say on this tragic matter. Why? Because Jerry Ford put his name on it and Jerry Ford’s word was always good.
“A decade later, when scandal forced a vice president from office, President Nixon turned to the minority leader in the House to stabilize his administration because of Jerry Ford’s sterling reputation for integrity within the Congress. To political ally and adversary alike, Jerry Ford’s word was always good.”
CONTINUED...
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/02/washington/02cnd-ford-ghwb.html?ei=5070&en=a9cf834723455ccf&ex=1169614800&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1169442277-BB/tszNk9YVyLGn6D6jo8g
Bush Senior Early CIA Ties Revealed
By Russ Baker and Jonathan Z. Larsen
The Real News Project January 8, 2007
NEW YORK--Newly released internal CIA documents assert that former president George Herbert Walker Bush's oil company emerged from a 1950's collaboration with a covert CIA officer.
Bush has long denied allegations that he had connections to the intelligence community prior to 1976, when he became Central Intelligence Agency director under President Gerald Ford. At the time, he described his appointment as a 'real shocker.'
But the freshly uncovered memos contend that Bush maintained a close personal and business relationship for decades with a CIA staff employee who, according to those CIA documents, was instrumental in the establishment of Bush's oil venture, Zapata, in the early 1950s, and who would later accompany Bush to Vietnam as a “cleared and witting commercial asset” of the agency.
According to a CIA internal memo dated November 29, 1975, Bush's original oil company, Zapata Petroleum, began in 1953 through joint efforts with Thomas J. Devine, a CIA staffer who had resigned his agency position that same year to go into private business. The '75 memo describes Devine as an “oil wild-catting associate of Mr. Bush.” The memo is attached to an earlier memo written in 1968, which lays out how Devine resumed work for the secret agency under commercial cover beginning in 1963.
“Their joint activities culminated in the establishment of Zapata Oil,” the memo reads. In fact, early Zapata corporate filings do not seem to reflect Devine's role in the company, suggesting that it may have been covert. Yet other documents do show Thomas Devine on the board of an affiliated Bush company, Zapata Offshore, in January, 1965, more than a year after he had resumed work for the spy agency.
CONTINUED...
http://realnews.org/rn/content/zapata.html
http://smirkingchimp.com/thread/4540
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Nov 23, 2013 - 05:36am PT
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You say Zapata, I say Zavada,
Let's call the whole thing off.
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monolith
climber
SF bay area
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Nov 23, 2013 - 09:39am PT
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OMG, 2.25 secs of freefall of part of the building! Somebody call the So What police.
The east penthouse started collapsing 8 seconds before the facade started to fall. 2.25 seconds of free fall of part of the building in a 14 second collapse means nothing.
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monolith
climber
SF bay area
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Nov 23, 2013 - 10:56am PT
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Holy Crap, the buildings were damaged in different ways! Had to be bombs.
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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Nov 23, 2013 - 01:02pm PT
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common sonny, it either says THIS or it doesnt
"NCSTAR 1A, page 48, which states: “A more detailed analysis of the descent of the north face found . . . (2) a freefall descent over approximately eight stories at gravitational acceleration for approximately 2.25 s. . . . .” "
which is it?
It actually says this:
Stage 1 (0 to 1.75 seconds): acceleration less than that of gravity (i.e., slower than free fall).
Stage 2 (1.75 to 4.0 seconds): gravitational acceleration (free fall)
Stage 3 (4.0 to 5.4 seconds): decreased acceleration, again less than that of gravity
This analysis showed that the 40 percent longer descent time—compared to the 3.9 second free fall time—was due primarily to Stage 1, which corresponded to the buckling of the exterior columns in the lower stories of the north face. During Stage 2, the north face descended essentially in free fall, indicating negligible support from the structure below. This is consistent with the structural analysis model which showed the exterior columns buckling and losing their capacity to support the loads from the structure above. In Stage 3, the acceleration decreased as the upper portion of the north face encountered increased resistance from the collapsed structure and the debris pile below.
Relavant portion bolded, for those incapable of locating the key portion of the analysis.
Curt
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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Nov 23, 2013 - 01:32pm PT
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the building was in "free fall" from 0 through 4 seconds AT LEAST!!!
As quoted below, you said previously it was 2.25 seconds of free fall, which is consistent with the "stage 2" portion of the collapse as stated by NIST.
"NCSTAR 1A, page 48, which states: “A more detailed analysis of the descent of the north face found . . . (2) a freefall descent over approximately eight stories at gravitational acceleration for approximately 2.25 s. . . . .” "
So what is it now? 2.25 seconds or "at least" 4 seconds?
Curt
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raymond phule
climber
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Nov 23, 2013 - 01:38pm PT
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that disection is trying to make it sound reasonable to believe that when you step off an edge and start falling, your not in free fall, until youve reached terminal velocity...
More like you fall of a cliff attached to a bungy rope that slow down your acceleration at the beginning before the rope breaks.
It should be obvious that the resistance of normal steel beams is much higher than the resistance from buckled steel beams.
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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Nov 23, 2013 - 01:41pm PT
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common curt! surely you didnt fail 8th grade?!?!?!
that disection is trying to make it sound reasonable to believe that when you step off an edge and start falling, your not in free fall, until youve reached terminal velocity...
the building was in "free fall" from 0 through 4 seconds AT LEAST!!!
The funny thing is that you have basically identified your own error by posting this earlier:
free fall is the condition of a physical object acted on by gravity where the only opposition is air pressure.
In the initial stage of the collapse (the first 1.75 seconds) the buckling of the support beams slowed the rate at which the top of the building collapsed--i.e., there was more than air resistance in opposition.
Curt
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monolith
climber
SF bay area
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Nov 23, 2013 - 01:56pm PT
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Terminal velocity was never reached, and certainly not after 1.75 seconds.
NIST never stated or implied terminal velocity defines free fall.
Show us this little tiny hole in the Pentagon, Jammer. You will find it's on the second floor with the first floor obscured by the firefighting.
Dang stupid people.
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raymond phule
climber
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Nov 23, 2013 - 02:00pm PT
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When you look up most 911 Truth information, the website is in almost all cases transparently hosted by whomever has put their name on the research which helps illuminate the Truth, and this person is often a respected member of society with real credentials which can be easily verified. Whats more, they provide logical science based arguments, and hide nothing about their results nor methods.
Really? When I have looked at 911 truth sites I found a lot of different theories that are of course incapable with each other. Many of them also makes no sense at all.
I really like the thought experiment that the collapse if building 7 should be compared to someone jumping from a cliff... but I guess that is an example of an logical science based argument...
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cintune
climber
The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
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Nov 23, 2013 - 03:03pm PT
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That's just what they want you to believe.
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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Nov 23, 2013 - 04:06pm PT
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Curt, unless you can point me to where they talk about their justification, through a statistical argument, of the actual building speed during the 1.25 seconds of "free fall", and why that is the most likely explanation given the data, I'm going to call what you have presented unscientific. Anyone can claim anything if they are convincing enough and fail to include the most important facts and details...
They don't mention speed (velocity) at all. NIST is only claiming that for 2.25 seconds (not 1.25 seconds) the top of the building fell with an acceleration of 9.8m/s^2
Curt
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raymond phule
climber
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Nov 23, 2013 - 04:21pm PT
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No, that thought experiment merely points out that free fall begins with the person/object not moving downward at all, and they attain terminal velocity, not that they are just going terminal velocity instantaneously, which is what it sounds like the report is claiming the building did.
That really doesn't make any sense. Terminal velocity has nothing to do with the use of the terminology free fall as it is used in the quoted section.
Free fall (as it is used in physics) implies that the acceleration is g towards the ground.
The thought experiment is wrong because a building jumping from a cliff is going to experience zero breaking force at the beginning and the breaking force is going to get higher with the speed of the building.
I am not sure what happens i an actually falling building but it make sense to assume that the force that works against the falling is largest at the beginning of the fall and get lower after some time because of the structure is failing because of for example buckling.
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