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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jul 11, 2007 - 02:36pm PT
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wiclimber: "Those loud pipes you hear saving lives?"
Please provide objective evidence of same, e.g. NHTSA statistics or studies.
Better still, read through the thread - the claim that a noisy motorcycle is safer is thoroughly debunked.
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wiclimber
Trad climber
devil's lake, wi
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Jul 11, 2007 - 02:50pm PT
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Harley is one of my biggest clients. I would never bite their hand.
That said, I HATE that loud crap too, but there are laws in place already. Enforce those. Let's not make more.
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tomtom
Social climber
Seattle, Wa
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Jul 11, 2007 - 04:18pm PT
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Loud pipes save lives.
Bullsh#t.
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5150
Trad climber
JOSHUA TREE
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Jul 11, 2007 - 05:21pm PT
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Loud pipes kick A$$. If any of you poor bastards could afford a Harley, you would'nt be talkin' $HIT. You'll hear me in the Valley next week. LIVIN' LOUD AS HELL!!!
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 11, 2007 - 05:24pm PT
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5150, f*#k you.
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5150
Trad climber
JOSHUA TREE
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Jul 11, 2007 - 05:31pm PT
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You don't want to F#K me Dirtbag, I would just lay there, sweat and laugh at you. F#K YOU.
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Jul 11, 2007 - 05:42pm PT
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See, it's not about *safety* at all.
It's about bad attitude and being a dumbsh#t.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jun 18, 2008 - 07:21pm PT
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Annual bump. Not that the discussion is likely to be advanced.
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apogee
climber
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Jun 18, 2008 - 07:50pm PT
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Loud bikes suck. Those who ride them and rationalize their noise with statements such as 'loud pipes save lives' are self-oriented and deluded.
In doing some quick searching of various motorcycle associations, many of them have position statements on the issue of exhaust and noise, and there is a distinct pattern of defensiveness- the Amer. Motor. Assoc. has apparently spent quite a bit of $ defending various challenges to noise regulations.
The most informed, articulate motorcyclists acknowledge that there is no proof at all of the 'loud pipes' defense. For those who espouse it, it is a shallow, self-serving manifestation of their own fragile egos.
Idyllwild has seen a huge increase in these hordes in recent years, encouraged by a few restaurants (especially JoAnn's, in the center of town) and businesses that are starving for a buck. Those businesses generally have poor reputations in the local community, &/or are starving for business. (If you visit Idyllwild, don't patronize these businesses, please.)
The noise rumbles all the way up to crags, and shatters one of the most desirable elements of the mountain experience- quiet- for hundreds of visitors and residents. All because of a few people's need to attract attention to themselves. I regard them with complete disdain.
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Dr. Rock
Ice climber
Castle Rock
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Jun 18, 2008 - 10:40pm PT
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Worse than a Jet Ski?
You know what is funny, Dennis Hopper talks about the filming of Easy Rider, and how stupid it would be to ride a chopper cross country in real life, because it is the worst possible choice of a custom motorcycle, and sure enough, right after the movie comes out, you see idiots with choppers and sleeping bags.
Give me one of those Honda Goldwings, with the stereo from hell.
I use to follow a guy on my bike every morning, as far as I could because he always cranked the killer tunes on his motorcycle, hear it for miles, 5:30 in the morning, neighbors loved it.
You see the same damn people every day on a bicycle commute.
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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Jun 18, 2008 - 11:30pm PT
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If you think that being heard on a motorcycle does not help provide
notice of your presence especially while on a freeway while splitting lanes has obviously never ridden a bike, at least not in traffic.
Most of your arguments are based on BS.
Like claiming wearing black makes you harder to see?
Are black cars harder to see?
I don't agree with excessively loud pipes but to say there is no benefit is ridiculous and obviously not based on riding experience.
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Captain...or Skully
Big Wall climber
Pain
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Jun 18, 2008 - 11:34pm PT
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Stupid Harleyfags anyway...
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Double D
climber
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Jun 18, 2008 - 11:51pm PT
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Gotta admit, this is one of my pet peeves. I can't see how the noise on hogs is legal but no other vehicles.
Their lobby group must be as powerful as the ACLU or NRA. I'm so gratefull that I don't have neighbors with Harley's any more!
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apogee
climber
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Jun 19, 2008 - 12:05am PT
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Shack-
FWIW, here's some quotes from the website of an avid motorcyclist (a personal injury lawyer who represents the motorcycle community), regarding the myth of 'loud pipes save lives':
"These statements seem to presuppose several assumptions that; 1) the other driver is not only going to hear the biker, but take the time to identify their actual location, 2) drivers in general rely on sound as much as vision to locate and avoid obstacles (in this case the motorcyclist), 3) the other driver gives enough of a damn about motorcyclists in the first place to do (1) and (2) above, and 4) that sounds emanating from a motorcycle's exhaust travel equally in all directions from the source."
"According to the Hurt report is was determined that 77% of motorcycle accident hazards come from in front of the rider, while only 3% approach from the rear. What's interesting here is that motorcycle pipes direct the vast majority of sound backwards where the least danger is, so for loud pipes to be truly effective safety measures they would need to be pointed forward where the greatest danger lies."
"As Neal Stephenson puts it in 'Zodiac' (The words in brackets [ ] were added by me.):
" First, a word on motorcycle safety:
If you've put yourself in a position where someone has to see [hear] you in order for you to be safe -- to see [hear] you, and to give a f**k -- you've already blown it."
Complete article:
http://www.virginiawind.com/byways/loud_pipes_save_lives.asp
An anecdotal article, to be sure, but interesting to see it posted within the context of the motorcyclist community.
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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Jun 19, 2008 - 12:20am PT
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Some pretty stupid statements in that...
Here is the most common scenario. If you have ever driven a car in heavy traffic, I'm sure you have had this happen to you.
How many of you have been in heavy traffic, creeping along, stop and go style,
and you hear a motorcycle approach as is splits the lanes and passes you....or maybe you are even startled by the sound as you are numbly driving along?
How many have almost started to change lanes only to hear a motor cycle approaching and checked your mirrors again before changing lanes?
Get the idea?
As a motor cycle rider, if you want to stay alive, you learn to look at other drivers eyes to see if they see you.
If you are behind them, you look in their mirrors at their heads etc, and when you are splitting lanes, you want to make sure the drivers are aware that you are there, and they usually don't know you are there until they hear you.
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Jingy
Social climber
Flatland, Ca
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Jun 19, 2008 - 12:26am PT
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I CAN'T STAND THESE THINGS.
EXTRA WHIMPY, LITTLE MEN RIDE THEM INTO THE VALLEY AND POLLUTE THE ENTIRE FOREST.
IT'S JUST AS BAD AS ALL THE WHINY-BEGGOES TRYING TO GET ACROSS THE BRIDGE ON 140.
REPULSIVE.
DISRESPECTFUL.
AND ALL FOR WHAT? CAN ANYBODY TELL ME? IS IT THE SENSE OF FREEDOM? HOW ABOUT FREEING ME FROM YOUR NOISE?
...sorry for screaming, but i had to try to be heard... i really can't stand them.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jun 19, 2008 - 12:29am PT
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Is lane splitting on a motorcycle legal? Is it considered a wise or even safe thing to do?
What percentage of their time do motorcycles use in lane splitting? I suspect much less than 5%.
If a motorcycle is adjusted/equipped so as to comply with legal noise limitations, how would that change things?
Do motorcycles have horns that they can use to warn people they're overtaking, or who may be doing something that threatens them?
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apogee
climber
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Jun 19, 2008 - 12:37am PT
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Shack-
If you ride a bike, you would know more than I do (I stay away from donor-cycles). I can only speak to my experience as a car driver, and honestly, I only become aware of loud pipes at the last moment, as they are directly alongside me (often startling the s**t out of me). If the noise is supposed to somehow make me more aware of them, and change my driving behavior accordingly, I can't say that this actually happens. Once they are in front of me, there isn't much of anything I could do as a driver to put them at risk.
What I can say, without a f*#cking doubt, is that I am sick of them riding up in mass, with their after-market exhaust systems, shattering the calm and quiet of my favorite outdoor areas.
Aside from that article, I found many other position statements from various cycling constituencies that makes it clear that it is an issue that the cycling community is fighting. Kind of reminds me of gun rights and the NRA. (But that's another thread.)
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corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
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Jun 19, 2008 - 12:50am PT
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I'll add Mt. Starr King as a place you can hear the loud bikes going/coming to Glacier Point.
Can you imagine the entrance station rangers with a hand held sound
meter checking the big bikes and turning back the noisy ones!
...yes rev your engine Sir! ... just a little check...
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s. o.
Trad climber
academia
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Jun 19, 2008 - 01:25am PT
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loud pipes are the same argument as lycra, painter's pants, and carharts.
5% performance 95% image.
It is interesting to hear all the hate. It reminds me of reading about climbing closures at the city of rocks of fear that climbers will "impair the historic viewshed"
Just people bitching about something they don't participate in so they don't care about banning it.
(yes, I ride with aftermarket pipes)
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