Tree Incident and Environmental Responsibility

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GDavis

Social climber

SOL CAL

Oct 23, 2013 - 09:02pm PT

has earned

past-tense :)

climbing out of bed doesn't count.

Personally attacking someone anonymously is another.

good point, I agree.

squishy

Mountain climber

Oct 23, 2013 - 09:10pm PT

Joe has my name and more, if he wants it. I'd take the dude hiking to see those trees in my pics.

squishy

Mountain climber

Oct 23, 2013 - 10:18pm PT

You want to ruin someone else's reputation, but worry that yours might take a hit if someone finds out you did it? F*#king Pathetic.

I don't have a reputation to ruin.

I hate having to quote myself, it usually means I am speaking to an idoit..but hear it goes again..

I am not going to put my full name out there without a reason, go ahead and pm me a reason and I'll pm you my name, I'd start with your own. There's lots of reasons why I wouldn't put it out in public, and none of them have anything to do with this subject.

Roughster

Sport climber

Vacaville, CA

Oct 23, 2013 - 10:30pm PT

WTF?

Please explain yourself, Roughster.

Simple. Who here didn't make tree forts? Who here didn't pound in steps into trees, hack off branches, chop down smaller trees for firewood while out camping? All those are actions that ultimately kill a tree.

Hell, I cut down a tree the other day in my backyard. Had been here since I bought the house, and was overhanging my pool and dropping in leaves, sap, etc... I had had enough, and out came the chainsaw. Took me about a total of 25 seconds to drop it, I felt no ill will from nature and the neighbor who watched wasn't even disgusted in the least let alone emotionally damaged. In fact, he asked to borrow the chainsaw over the next few weekends to do some cutting around his place.

My point is, I have cut down, damaged, maimed, trimmed, chopped, broke a lot of trees in my life. And I can bet many of the people reading this thread and decrying the outrage of Joe's action to the world have done the same. As I mentioned previously, you couldn't grow up in the 70s and have not done many or most likely pretty much all of the things that I mention.

Now the difference here is context, cutting down a tree as a child in an era when it was acceptable, hell even normal, or on property I own IS different than chopping down a 1,000 year old juniper on public land. However, the reality of the action is only different by the context. Not saying that the impact is the same, but the consequences to Joe's Tree and the rest of the trees that I have mangled are the same.

So, I honestly really doubt anyone on here who says "I have never chopped down a tree". Really? Maybe you have never chopped it down for climbing purposes, but I highly doubt that most can say they have never chopped down a tree EVER for any reason.

Think back to your youth. I still remember, how 'bout you?

[Click to View YouTube Video]

WBraun

climber

Oct 23, 2013 - 10:40pm PT

My real name is Donald

Donald Duck .... Quack ......

TGT

Social climber

So Cal

Oct 23, 2013 - 10:48pm PT

the consequences to Joe's Tree and the rest of the trees that I have mangled are the same.

Nope, not even close.

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber

Pomfert VT

Oct 23, 2013 - 10:48pm PT

Even if they are city folk who have never sat arround a campfire and have no real clue what is the real sorce of all the energy they use to heat their homes, cook their food, transport their ass to the cliff and lift them to the top of the ski mountain and wank arround on the internet they most likly live in a house made of wood, sit in wooden chairs and eat their meals on wooden tables... might even have a wood salad bowl..

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber

Pomfert VT

Oct 23, 2013 - 10:57pm PT

Or go sailing in Uncle teddys fancy sailboat that is trimmed with mahogany and teak. Perhaps they simply like to sit on the cedar bench in the ceder sauna after a rough day gang bashing someone on the internet.

harryhotdog

Social climber

north vancouver, B.C.

Oct 24, 2013 - 02:07am PT

You forgot toilet paper Tradmanclimbs but I still don't buy your argument as all trees have different values.

Todd Eastman

climber

Bellingham, WA

Oct 24, 2013 - 02:17am PT

When climbing conduct your behavior so it meets both land management and community standards. If choosing to disregard these, put up with what you have harvested...

patrick compton

Trad climber

van

Oct 24, 2013 - 08:28am PT

all trees have different values.

All trees are equal, but some trees are more equal than others.

justthemaid

climber

Jim Henson's Basement

Oct 24, 2013 - 08:51am PT

This thread has gotten all squirrely with all the idiotic bickering, but I have to respond to Roughster's allegation:

The hypocrisy of this thread is funny. If you are over 30 and are reading this thread, YOU HAVE CUT A TREE DOWN BEFORE, PERIOD! It was impossible to grow up in the 70s and not have chopped down a tree unless you were both physically and mentally handicapped.

Well, call me "retard"....

Sorry.. that post is just... dumb.

er...I've never cut down a tree. I literally cannot recall ever taking a saw to the base of a tree, although I did pick one out a a Christmas tree farm as a kid and watched my dad cut it down for me... at worst that makes me an Ethan.

Edit since I just saw your response:

[You].. hack off branches, chop down smaller trees for firewood while out camping? All those are actions that ultimately kill a tree.

Really? * sigh *

Uh.. no.. they do not "ultimately kill a tree" as you state. I've collected dead branches on the ground, and trimmed branches off lots of trees... which I can assure you are still alive and well. I live in a wood house for sure.. but it was built before I was born. The Santa Anna winds have blown over and killed more trees in my yard than I have.

I'm not advocating never cutting any trees down. Of course we need harvested wood. I simply cannot condone cutting down any 100 year old slow-growth trees growing on federal land protected by law, in violation of local ethics for the sake of a sport climb.

I don't even understand why any comparison is made to commercially harvested wood at all. That would be wood harvested legally that was cut from faster growing species. There is no comparison in my mind.

GDavis

Social climber

SOL CAL

Oct 24, 2013 - 11:40am PT

I think the point in saying "we've all f*#ked up" isn't to say that Joes actions are equal to everyone's - rather, that we should temper out reactions with objectivity. Of COURSE a juniper at elevation in the Sierra does not equal a birch in a low valley, or however you'd like to slice it. To hold a loudspeaker against others while refusing to take a microscope to our own, is.

Sure, it's more fun to find the boogeyman. That can't be denied, a weird part of the human Ego that asks for retribution.

alleyehave

Trad climber

San Diego, CA

Nov 10, 2013 - 08:17pm PT

I think the response is appropriate. If we don't police ourselves, the land managers will.

I also think Pringle should give his side of the story. I'm having a hard time understanding why he thought it was okay to make an approach with a guy carrying a chainsaw to a crag in a pristine NF with the intent of route development and not calling him out. I guess when the stoke is high to send sick projs, who cares right?