Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
wbw
Trad climber
'cross the great divide
|
|
I think you're right Sketchy, and to be honest, I hadn't even heard of the proposed hostel until I read it on ST this morning. I don't think it's been in the Boulder Daily Camera. One might conclude that the AAC was trying to keep it low key for now, and it just didn't turn out that way.
People can say what they want about Groovytown: sense of entitlement, weird kids' names, trustafarians, can't climb off-width . . whatever. But I've lived here 25 years and I can tell you that what is as true as any of that is that the squeaky wheel gets the grease, perhaps more than other places. (If you don't believe me, check out the pathetic process by which our school board adopted a new calendar for the coming school year.)
If the residents truly don't want this hostel in Eldo Springs, it is highly unlikely that it will happen. Which is why I repeat: can anyone name a benefit to the town by having the hostel there?
|
|
klk
Trad climber
cali
|
|
But if you can't list one single good reason why a resident of Eldo Springs should want to have this hostel, you aren't exactly a mover and shaker in the discussion, are you?
lol im not involved in this at all. havent been attending aac meetings. first i'd head of it was the dustup on fb.
the absence of perceived benefits for the residents of eldo springs doesn't matter. or perhaps it matters for helping outsiders to understand opposition to the hostel. but i don't have any trouble understanding why residents of eldo springs would oppose any kind of change like this. their opposition is entirely rational. selfish, but rational.
i don't know enough about the history of the community-aac conversations (which have apparently been going on for some time) or about the specifics of zoning ordinance in this particular county to comment knowledgeably on those issues.
|
|
Crackslayer
Trad climber
Eldo
|
|
I like you pitbull. Maybe we can get together sometime?
The AAC doesn't give a sh#t about eldo residents. I sent an email and was very disappointed with the AAC reply (at least they replied but basically said they were looking at all opinions before making a decision). IMO, it seems that they will do anything to get this hostel thing going. Anyways, never been an AAC member, never will. BTW I was born and raised in boulder and now I live in eldo. So all you armchair spraying talk big but I'd like to see you in our situation. Who wants to live next to a POS AAC hostel?
Come on AAC...just throw out this idea already.
|
|
philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
|
|
Brad, the amazing bike path system in boulder could be said to have no intrinsic value to the home owners who's property abuts it. In fact scores of them protested the "land grab" and all the scary strangers using their back yards. But who's arguing now? Property along the bike path is in increasingly high demand because of it's intrinsic desirability. A well done Climber's Lodge in Eldo could have long term value to the community. A meeting place for locals and climbers from all over. A clearing house for current information. The opportunity to resurrect and improve a woefully dilapidated property. That alone helps improve the place for all. Tell me what is better for the hamlet of Eldorado Springs the current Arts Center with their kitschy wine and cheese parties or the red neck mechanic and Volvo graveyard that used to be in that location?
Who knows what the long term value may be.
Personally I miss the hippie cafe that used to be in the Post Office building. I don't miss the flies from the horse rental stable near by but the cafe was a nice place to go. Eldo Springs could use a little more homegrown commercial activity. Also a regular shuttle service from the town to the Park N Ride at 93 would be tremendous and could really help alleviate the stress of so many non resident cars.
Intrinsic is as intrinsic does Mama always said.
|
|
pitbull
Mountain climber
Co, NY, WV
|
|
klk, wbw, jp social, thank you for your intelligent contributions admittedly my comments were inmature at times but you are right the residents just found out about the proposed hostel May 7th even though the AAC has been under contract since Dec 2012. The AAC had a petition against them near the Gunx campground by residents who were in support of the campground. The Gunx residents just wanted some rules and size limits. Instead they were bashed by AAC and supporters and their concerns completely dismissed.
2 out of 3 places New River, Gunx, and Eldo have had concerns by residents. The 5 year plan was published in 2011 why are just hearing about it now? especially since the AAC executive staff member lives in Eldo. Seem like they were trying to keep it quiet from the residents. It is hard to listen to an organization be praised for community and great support...when they try to steamroll a small neighborhood and did it once before in the past 2 years
|
|
goatboy smellz
climber
Nederland-GulfBreeze
|
|
JLP
Social climber
The internet
Jul 3, 2013 - 02:33pm PT
Fact: Boulder county will not issue a permit for anything that exceeds available parking.
Not true, I was involved with the some of the financing for the development off Yarmouth and the condos that went in at the north end of 29th street mall. The city wants density over parking spaces and they will allow a permit if it suits their fancy. Money talks.
|
|
Snowmassguy
Trad climber
Calirado
|
|
Don't you guys have senator that lives in Eldo?
|
|
Crackslayer
Trad climber
Eldo
|
|
Udall lives in washington
|
|
steve shea
climber
|
|
Goatboy is on the money. A variance is a convenient way to 'break the rule' Look, Teton Co. Wy has been the epicenter of NIMBYism in the Rockies. I've only been here for 36yrs but have seen the town go from 5000 inhabitants to well over 20K. Does not sound like much change does it? Well if you consider that only 2.5% of Teton co. land is available for private ownership one can easily see that living here now is crowded, very crowded. Not to much different than Maui only instead of being surrounded by water we are surrounded by BLM, Nat. Forest and Nat. Park. Yet to deny growth and sensible development is a fools errand. The solution as Peter suggested has been the town as heart of the communitiy and mixed use. It may not be the AAC but change is coming get used to it. No matter the reason. This is a classic NIMBY argument. Some will win some will lose. Unless you have extremely deep pockets to buy your 3 acre ranchette, you will have get used to hearing your neighbors fart. I'd like to see the Clmber's Hostel go in; personally I do not care about reasons.
|
|
rich sims
Social climber
co
|
|
I vote Yes!
I will never use it.
It will never personally benefit me.
I do not give a sh#t if the locals do not want it.
It is not their property.
It will benefit far more people than it will harm!
Another possible solution is turn the whole canyon into a park and scrape the garbage built after ,,,,,say 1915, 1925, 1935.
I get emails from climbers looking for Boulder area camping options every year.
This reminds me of when I lived in the mountains and the beach. That idiots from Denver, Zonnies go home, Tourist go home and leave your daughters.
You move to an entrance of a Park and if you want to be crowd free move to Simla or Boulevard.
This is as asinine as when a guy asked that I not build on the lot next door a week after he moved into a new home I had built.
I told him he could buy the lot from me and do as he pleased.
My mother as a teen stayed in Eldo when she spent summers on the ranch north of Colorado Springs. It was quite happening tourist place.
I want everyone who moved to Colorado after me, of course to go back to where they came from. Your mothers womb if needs be.
I want I want I want. Put crap in one hand and want in the other and tell me how it works out for you.
By the land or STFU
A heart felt Happy Fourth to both sides of this issue.
America the free unless its my back yard.
I hope both sides can find a win win situation but its not likely.
|
|
Lawny
Trad climber
Arvada, CO
|
|
This is wonderful, I got an email from our beloved pitbull...
Greetings from a Fellow SuperTopo Member!
This message has been sent from a fellow registered SuperTopo climbing member to you.
The message is:
bring it!
Sent by: pitbull <olivekinsey3@gmail.com>
Oh Olive. I just asked that you use your real name, bring it? really Grow the f*#k up. I work in Boulder if you would like to meet up and talk, or I could come to Eldo...after dusk of course.
John Klooster
|
|
nature
climber
Boulder, CO
|
|
Dam Rich... does that mean you won't come to Vedawoo sushifest if i don't go back to mother natures womb?
|
|
pitbull
Mountain climber
Co, NY, WV
|
|
Hey JTD really the person works at the AAC headquarters in Golden.
|
|
Crag Q
Trad climber
Louisville, Colorado
|
|
First I've heard of this. That is an interesting use of that property. It has struggled to have any sustainable business there. It was the Naked Edge Mountaineering, a cafe and a clothing store for a while. Whoever owns that property must be excited to unload it. The mansion to the left I always thought would make a great restaurant or bed and breakfast.
On a purely selfish note, I am not in favor of this proposal. The residents are right that it will change the character of this tiny area and there are only a handful of parking spots. It does seem like the economics are against the AAC, so they must be working towards a higher goal.
However, I don't want to see more people in Eldo. I love to go there on a gorgeous spring day and only see a couple people climbing. I love riding there in the morning and only seeing a couple of people biking. I love going fishing there and catching small brown trout and being the only one fishing there. For the few who know what a quiet gem Eldorado is, it's unlikely they will be in favor of this proposal. I don't blame the residents of Eldo for fighting this on any grounds real or imaginary.
Twenty additional climbers in Eldo is actually quite a bit unless they are all on the Bastille crack like usual. The classics fill up quickly as it is and it is the last place in the world you want to climb under others due to the chossy nature of the rock. Many people who have not climbed there don't get that and are in for a harsh reality of what tricky 5.9 on run out gear is like.
If I didn't live nearby already I would have the complete opposite opinion of the proposal.
|
|
Janet Robinson
climber
|
|
This building has been for sale on and off for the last 4 years, there is a reason it has not sold,it is a minefield of land use, code, and location limitations.
Several potential buyers have walked away once they completed their due diligence.
For a million dollars the AAC is ok with a 4,248 sq ft structure on 8,580 sq ft lot, with a post office thrown in the middle.
Obviously parking has been the main reason buyers have run away.
This is in Boulder County which has a very conservative Land Use Department.
I called Boulder County land Use a couple of days ago, the AAC has met with Land Use but has not submitted the required and lengthy Special Use Review.
I believe the AAC has until July 12th to make a decision on whether to proceed.
To purchase a building in Eldorado Springs without any guarantee of development is unprecedented and certainly a risky financial undertaking.
Resale will be difficult and likely at a loss, however, anyone with inside knowledge could pick up a good deal in Eldo in a couple of years.
Could a guiding company be looking for a reduced priced spot in Eldo ?
Regardless of the motivation all should be asking for more transparency and information from the AAC regarding this issue.
Janet Robinson. Eldorado Springs Resident and Climber
|
|
crunch
Social climber
CO
|
|
Big thanks to many posters, especially Janet Robinson and philo (Phil Broskovak) for eloquently stating two sides of the debate.
My own take:
1. A hostel is a great idea (around here, there is no other cheap lodging/camping)
2. The residents are not happy. The two complaints that seem important are that an extra 20+ people will bring the new, expensive sewer system to full capacity (but, jeez, was it really designed with so little spare capacity, how does it cope with big events at the arts center?)
3. Parking. Parking is and always has been difficult in Eldorado town. The hostel users will have to drive to the hostel, so they don't need to be within walking distance.
My conclusion is that a better location would be a bit farther away, like maybe near the main road/gas station/liquor store. Residents will have no real basis to complain. Win-win, all round. Of course there may be all kinds of reasons I'm utterly misinformed or plain wrong.
Over to Mark Kroese. Mark, upthread, you mentioned the word transparency. What are your thoughts, whether personal or representing the AAC official view? Help us out here, Mark.
Crusher Bartlett
Boulder
|
|
philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
|
|
Well Janet Robinson I am glad you are concerned about the AAC's investment portfolio but in the spirit of transparency that you have asked for can I ask if you had your own plans to buy the Post Office Property?
|
|
Rick A
climber
Boulder, Colorado
|
|
I disagree with my friend Christian and think that a hostel in Eldorado is a very good idea . Some thoughts:
• The initial response by the AAC to the concerns of the community was bone headed. Phil Powers, the ED, handled this mistake by the organization very well by immediately apologizing and encouraging a more reasoned discussion. Well done, Phil.
• The hysterical reaction by some of the opponents is even less apppropriate than the AAC’s initial response. (although Pit Bull’s rant about climbers “driving like maniacs to get to your giant slabs of rock you are so eager to mount” was pretty good)
• The rhetoric regarding terrible adverse impacts seems exaggerated. No hotel has consistently 100% occupancy so we are talking about a handful of visiters staying overnight inside a building ( as opposed to a campground where sound can carry more easily) during the warmer parts of the year. Is this really the end of Eldo as we know it? I don’t think so.
• The solution to parking is to require the hostel to make sure it has enough parking for its visitors.
• I have stayed at the Teton Climbing Ranch and it is not luxurious, but well suited to its purpose: an inexpensive place for climbers to stay. Based on the sorts of people with whom I shared a large room with plywood bunk beds in the Tetons, it seems unlikely that the visiting climbers will terrorize the town at night like the gang in the Marlon Brando movie, “The Wild One”.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGn_od9owp8
• The profit analysis is completely beside the point. The AAC is a non-profit so it is neither necessary nor desirable that this venture be profitable. I would rather the AAC (and its alleged financier, "the giant vampire squid") spend its money on this sort of project than almost any other, although the library is pretty good too.
I personally wish we could go back to the time in the 70’s and 80’s when you could camp next to the river in the canyon and Eldorado town was the place where old Volvos went to die. But times change and a modest proposal to allow a few visitors to stay overnight in the canyon is worthy of support, especially if reasonable steps are taken to mitigate parking and similar impacts on the residents.
Rick
|
|
Peter Haan
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
|
|
There are problems, though Ricky. As usual you overlooked much.
What if the Giant Vampire Squid gets in the creek and works his way up to Eldo?
What if Phil Powers is actually a shape-shifter and is NOT The Kwisatz Haderach?
Where did anyone get the idea the entire population of Eldo were licensed Sanitary Engineers? Don’t make me crank of Photoshop, I am warning you,Ricky.
Was the little kerfuffle up on Denali with Jon and Conrad related to (3)????
All things tie off in the end.
Oh and very good post, thanks much. Leave it to a property expert to unfangle the whooz-ur-fathers to provide us with his view of the Empyrean.
|
|
pitbull
Mountain climber
Co, NY, WV
|
|
First , Rick, Phil Powers did NOT apologize for Penn Burris until CHRISTIAN GRIFFITH reached out to former and current board members (Mark Kroese..he is a very good guy) it took almost 2 weeks to even get a response from AAC. The only reason Phil Powers came to Eldo was because Christian strongly encouraged him to speak to the residents.
The initial response to Penn's letter was the Residents of Eldo will find out about the lodge thru press releases and county process.
The hostel would be much better served up the road on a bigger property like the Condarosa. Please it would be better for all!
Thanks to the the comment about leaving Eldo as is from someone in Louisville..it was spot on.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!