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ncrockclimber
climber
The Desert Oven
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Feb 16, 2013 - 05:10pm PT
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My take-away: you acknowledge the catholic church has hidden and protected known or suspected pedophiles from the law, but since 'those other people' are worse the catholic church is not deserving of the condemnation its receiving.
I could not have said it better myself. It makes me sad and angry to see this behavior.
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John M
climber
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Feb 16, 2013 - 05:15pm PT
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I could not have said it better myself. It makes me sad and angry to see this behavior.
Yep.. Dingus nailed it. Thanks Dingus..
My take-away: you acknowledge the catholic church has hidden and protected known or suspected pedophiles from the law, but since 'those other people' are worse the catholic church is not deserving of the condemnation its receiving.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Feb 16, 2013 - 05:21pm PT
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My take-away: you acknowledge the catholic church has hidden and protected known or suspected pedophiles from the law, but since 'those other people' are worse the catholic church is not deserving of the condemnation its receiving.
I don't recall saying a strong measure of condemnation wasn't in order, Dingus.
But rebuke needs be conveyed to the guilty individuals. Catholic clerics number in the millions....denunciation of the guilty few not the entire hierarchy, most of whom are well meaning individuals.
Roman Catholic Church is a discrete entity. Much easier to target than ill-defined structures like "public schools", "fundamentalists"."the Godless""run-of-the-mill miscreants".
Compassion and concern for the victims and (righteous) anger at the guilty is appropriate.
Smearing everyone in the organization with the sin or projecting my own misbehavior and shortcomings onto them is not appropriate...
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John M
climber
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Feb 16, 2013 - 05:34pm PT
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That hierarchy elected a man as leader/pope who helped create and protect the system that hid the pedophiles. What excuses that? Forgiveness? How could you ever trust that persons judgment? One might forgive someone for something like that, but that does not mean one then puts him in charge of everything.
The fox is in charge of the henhouse.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Feb 16, 2013 - 05:41pm PT
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You are free to substantiate your accusations, John...
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John M
climber
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Feb 16, 2013 - 05:41pm PT
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Its fairly well documented.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Feb 16, 2013 - 05:46pm PT
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Is it?
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Feb 16, 2013 - 06:07pm PT
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A list priests that the Pope defrocked for molesting MANY children would satisfy me that he was doing his best. How many is that anyway?
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ncrockclimber
climber
The Desert Oven
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Feb 16, 2013 - 06:46pm PT
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Yes, it is VERY well documented. Please take a few minutes doing google search and read the documentation. Then, please feel free to refute it. The Pope protected and enabled child molesters.
I appreciate you expressing the "other sides" opinion. However, I believe that you are defending a corrupt organization that supports pedophiles and NOTHING you have said changes the fact that the church, at its highest levels of leadership, and this pope specifically, protected pedophiles from prosecution and knowingly enabled them to molest children. The children are the victims here, and instead of recognizing that and being outraged, you try to shift the focus by pointing out that there are other more prevalent and "worse" abusers out there... and that makes me both sad for you and mad that you are tacitly supporting the hypocritical child molesters that run the catholic church.
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Branscomb
Trad climber
Lander, WY
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Feb 16, 2013 - 06:51pm PT
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Vanna White probably is on Twitter and would provide intellectual entertainment equal to that old fool.
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Fish Finder
Social climber
THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 16, 2013 - 06:55pm PT
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Vanna White only has 2 tweets on her account and I wouldnt follow her to the bathroom, Can I have a bowel please?
Now Carrot Top might be as interesting as the Pope to follow!
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steve shea
climber
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Feb 16, 2013 - 07:20pm PT
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The guilty are not few. They are legion. There are no well meaning individuals in the hierarchy. On face value it may seem so. But they are grossly duplicitous to the point of being criminal. What you fail to understand is that the College of Cardinals is a filter for world wide news reported from the catholic universe. The college votes on its appointments with final approval fom the Pope. Virtually every Cardinal knows every aspect of this, molestation, issue. Ratzingers office at the Vatican had one purpose. He was in charge of dispatching the molestation cases being submitted from around the world. They were overwhelmed. Ratzinger did not begin excommunication proceedings on one priest. He was then elected Pope and took this knowledge and the attendant conspiracy to the highest office. This is not only documented but a matter of record in courts from The Hague to podunk city. To deny this is ignorant at best and sympathetic at the worst. Do you deny the holocaust as well? Yes I suppose there are 'good' people. Were all Germans bad? If that is the argument, its weakness has been discussed and prosecuted in court of public opinion and the war tribunals at Nuremburg. Now I'm done. I could not resist as a non practicing catholic. Skiing was good in the Tetons today. BTW your broadstroke condemnation of public schools needs some fine tuning as far as documentation reaching the level of the pandemic perversion in the Catholic church. A few teabagger articles from the provinces are not even remotely comparable. If so, every school distict in the US would be suspect. Show me the proof. This revelation is on the order of FOX NOISE reporting and not worth the breath. Sounds like a right wing effort for more charter, community, and home schooling. If you want to equate any entity I suppose Walmart, Burger King, public libraries and banks have molesters. Bad argument. The Catholic church stands alone and set the bar.
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froodish
Social climber
Portland, Oregon
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Feb 16, 2013 - 11:36pm PT
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I'm reminded of the Milgram Authority Studies. Surely the submission to authority played a part here.
Question Authority.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Feb 17, 2013 - 12:26am PT
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Do you deny the holocaust as well?
....BTW your broadstroke condemnation of public schools needs some fine tuning as far as documentation reaching the level of the pandemic perversion in the Catholic church. A few teabagger articles from the provinces are not even remotely comparable. If so, every school distict in the US would be suspect. Show me the proof. This revelation is on the order of FOX NOISE reporting and not worth the breath.
My source is no less than the U.S. Department of Education, Mr Shea. The 2004 U.S. Department of Education report reported that "the most accurate data available" reveals that "nearly 9.6 percent of [public school] students are targets of educator sexual misconduct sometime during their school career.
The PDF file is on the web.
Hofstra University's Dr. Charol Shakeshaft, the organizer of the study, said in 2006, "Think the Catholic Church has a problem? The physical sexual abuse of students in schools is likely more than 100 times the abuse by priests."
Your rhetorical question regarding the holocaust is inapt and is, aside from being swaggering insult, extraneous to the discussion.
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BooYah
Social climber
Ely, Nv
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Feb 17, 2013 - 12:32am PT
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The Pope was a Nazi. Other Popes have been Nazi Enablers, if nothing else.
Evil Organization.
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BooYah
Social climber
Ely, Nv
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Feb 17, 2013 - 01:27am PT
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All things are connected. It's how the Earth works.
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Fish Finder
Social climber
THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 17, 2013 - 08:53am PT
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Latest Odds by Paddy Powers
"At the moment, the front-runner for pope is Canadian Cardinal Marc Ouellet, with Italy's Archbishop Angelo Scola in second. Two Africans — Cardinal Peter Turkson and Cardinal Francis Arinze — are moving up on the outside. Cardinal Oscar Rodriguez Maradiaga from Latin America is also in contention.
American candidates trail very badly.
The odds of famous atheist author, Richard Dawkins, being chosen as the next pope are listed at 666 to 1.
Bono, lead singer for the rock group U2, is a long shot at 1,000 to 1."
He also predicts the new pope will choose the name Peter or Pius
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rockermike
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Feb 17, 2013 - 02:21pm PT
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no fan of Ratzinger, but just out of fairness, membership in Hitler Youth was obligatory, and 90% of German kids belonged.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Feb 17, 2013 - 02:23pm PT
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The 2004 U.S. Department of Education report reported that "the most accurate data available" reveals that "nearly 9.6 percent of [public school] students are targets of educator sexual misconduct sometime during their school career.
That ain't necessarily pedophilia... nor is it necessarily teachers raping 8 year old boys. Our high school French teacher was pretty awesome at sexual misconduct... from what I hear.
Check out Crunk Bear... the administration dealt with her how sexual misconductors SHOULD be dealt with when caught. Compare that to the Catholic Crutch, who transfer, hide, and protect their pedophiles within their institution. I think it is very sad that you can't bring yourself to see the obvious difference.
If the school administration ACTIVELY HID AND PROTECTED the offenders, you would be even more upset with the school system administration... but apparently only because they are not RELIGIOUS leaders.
one only has to consider the obvious concerted effort of the higher levels of church leadership to shelter the various pedophiles from prosecution
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