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Trad climber
Central Sierra
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Been to Peru twice. Pretty fantastic mountain scenery. If this was Quechua Indians, which it probably was, then it doesn't really surprise me. Poverty definitely oppresses their spirits. Extremely poor and uneducated. They have this amazing history in the Sacred Valley near Cusco and smart and wealthy Peruvians are making all the money. They are amazing weavers, some of the best on the planet, yet they seemed quite suppressed from the Peruvian Government and people. I'd want an ipod too if I was living in an adobe house with pigs and my own sh*t. Lack of education with these people and a huge movement of tourism into their most sacred thing of all, their land.
Sorry about the beating. I would have fought back. There comes a point when you quit saying 'Im sorry can we go?' and you just GO! Before the guns come out, ya know.
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andy@climbingmoab
Big Wall climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Sangay is a lot easier to get around nowadays. Take a bus to Riobamba and get a park permit at the park headquarters there. Then take some local buses to Alau. From there, hike up the road until it ends and then try not to get lost in the jungle - 3 days to the base of Sangay from Alau. I tried to go in there with skis but bailed halfway though after seeing how little snow was left on the mountain and how difficult getting skis through the jungle is. Fun hare-brained adventure anyway.
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TYeary
Social climber
State of decay
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Thanks John M. I appreciate that. JLP, you're a funny guy! TY
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Read the first few pages, sounds like the perfect storm of impoverished resentful locals and (forgive me, Werner) stupid Americans, and (yup) women drivers.
Bear spray? Really?!! Yeah great, "Looks like we're cornered. Lets see if we can REALLY piss them off before they get us!"
Of course by then they had already made a series of compounding errors.
How about making a PLAN and using a map and convoying for security and maintaining condition yellow and mudding up the car and hiding the expensive gear and,... aw hell, I give up. Some people couldn't buy a clue with a stack of coin.
I don't even know what a Nano Puf is, but if I was a poor peasant then just for shlts and giggles I would likely chuck a rock at some stupid unarmed twit that had one.
Does it really go puff? Better question, with nobody dead and $16K+ in sympathy how many people learned lessons?
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harryhotdog
Social climber
north vancouver, B.C.
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they stripped us of our possessions on our persons which included my iPhone 5, Bright modern outdoor clothing,bright packs and modern vehicles make you stick out like a sore thumb in any third world country.Traveling by bus and staying at lodgings in towns at night is a far safer way to travel. I admire their adventurous spirit and feel bad that this happened to them but I think they were quite naive and their style of travel made them vunerable.
A climber friend of mine who always wears the best arcteryx clothing and has the best gear took a cab from the Lima airport with a friend to head into the Andes for climbing. The driver obviously scoped them out with all the expensive gear and took them out in the boonies where he met up with an accomplice. They were robbed at gun point and at some point bolted for the bushes and were shot at. They lost everything but were not injured. When I travelled through India and Nepal I had a shitty old grey courdura pack and never wore flashy coloured clothing and had a dirtbag beard,never had a problem.
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Fish Finder
Social climber
THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART
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Did someone do something wrong?
Did someone do something right?
Some are more privileged.
Crazy Humanity!
What is tangible ?
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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I believe dental implants vary widely from location to location in the U.S.
If Joseph receives dental work in a resort area such as his hometown Jackson, WY the costs could be quite high for implants with an abutment and crown. Driving over the mountains into Rexburg, ID, he might procure a very competent dentist and significantly lower prices.
I received two broken front teeth but there was enough tooth left that I only required crowns. An Idaho dentist did both teeth for $2100 total and did very good work...of course with an implant and abutment beforehand, the combined price would have likely been more than double that sum.
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Butch
Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe
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I read this horrible story yesterday when there were only a handfull of posts and I was dumbfounded. Wishing all the best for these three and if I could afford it I would send money. I came rushing back here after watching something on netflix ... just finished watching it not but 5 min ago... it struck such a nerve in me and made me think of this story I felt compelled to share my thoughts of why a community / village of men, women and even ...and even children would be part of such inhumane treatment of anyone...but more specifically Americans. As I read through a few posts by Rohod - Router, Riley Wyna , Crunch and others I thought I might be the only one to throw out my theory ... until the very last post I read by T*R ...Who I think nailed it. The movie I watched on Net Flix was "Coca Lives". Very eye opening on the failed drug wars that America imposes on another country with that "carrot on the stick called money" and who's lives it really destroys. Truly explained why a whole village armed with whistles and rocks would turn out to defend their lively hood An eye opening movie that should be watched. It may shed some light on what really was happening in this village.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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"""For now I would be happy to go back to the village and do some killing with soe oof my green beray buddys but I don’t think that will happen. Any ho carefull where you camp and I will fill you in on all the gory details latter. jed """"
Green beray? No I don't think it will happen either Jed. If you can't spell the name of their headgear, they won't go kill villagers for you.
Sheesh, this dude writes like a third grader.
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Bargainhunter
climber
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Wow, quite disheartening to see quite a few of you armchair observers are awfully comfortable spewing criticism and judgement at the victims.
This situation was about as bad as it gets.
While climbing in Bolivia in 2004, there had been a number of similar incidences reported of mob villager attacks. These were not robberies, but large groups of villagers ambushing camping travelers, hurling rocks at them, burning their cars, hellbent on murder and destruction, with the victims running for their lives with only the shirts on their backs. In Sorata, a particularly scenic mountain town, a traveler's hotel was surrounded and the Bolivian army had to be called in to drive the villagers away, a few were killed.
While most travelers will never encounter situations like this, it is important to understand the potential of the evil that can appear and escalate out of control. These three are lucky to be alive.
Some areas have reputations of having hostile villagers and need to be given a wide berth.
No need to be paranoid or write entire countries off from your travel itinerary, but learn as much as you can and prepare for the worst and make prudent decisions.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Not having travelled to Peru, I cannot really comment on the land or people. But as there are two sides to every story (and then some), we have really only heard one side. I suspect, and this is total speculation that, reading the comments on this thread from those who have been there (with both good and bad experiences) that, as usual with many issues, the truth lies somewhere in between.
If I had the money I would contribute to their medical expenses, but not anything else, ie gear, iPhones, further travel (except back to the States), etc.
BUT...
What I can comment on is, like many threads, this one has deteriorated into name calling, and that is not nice. Keep it civil, keep it adult and keep it reasonable. That's my two cents worth.
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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This sort of crime can happen anywhere. I've had armed thugs bust into my home in the USA and threaten to kill me while they robbed my place. You don't see me writing trip reports about a viciously attacked climber.
I'm very sorry that anyone has to go through something like this. Sounds like their "innocence cherry" was busted badly. But if you travel into remote areas, you're taking risks and you gotta take responsibility for what happens to you.
We went caving along the Syrian border in March 2012, and we hired armed guards with AK-47s.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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I agree with Fear and others, something stinks here, or at least doesn't seem "right". Now that I have read all of the comments to date and have read links and stories elsewhere Okay MP, and it is much the same). Maybe I am being cynical, but I see some sort of movie deal and books in the future for these people.
I just have to be objective and wonder how much of this story is true or at least factual.
And I agree that $17,000 is a lot of money to get back to the States.
I still see a movie deal and film rights in the future, whether these people did or didn't experience what they have written. As far as I can see, we only have their words for it. I'd like to see some sort of official report from either or both the US government or Peruvian authorities.
It would make a story/film that many Americans would buy the book or pay the cinema to see Americans being ill-treated in a far away land.
These people are asking for money from the public. If their claims are legit, so be it and best of luck to them. But...
I am not by nature a cynic, but something doesn't seem right with their story.
I am facing eviction if I do not get my back rent on time, in a house that I have made safe and secure for Jennie, pumping a lot of my money into it, but my landlord doesn't care.
Should I go online to one of these fund-raising sites? I was beat up by a bunch of leprechauns (little feckers) who stole my savings, and then... the Banshee showed up at my door. Shudder.
I am writing a book about it now.
Is the Peru story a scam of some sorts? Perhaps time will tell. If I had the money a) to hire somebody to look and care after Jennie for the needed time to b) travel to Peru and c) find a good interpreter/local to d) try and interview those in the village to e) try and ascertain what did happen, as well as interview, face to face the travelers involved, that would be something.
Marcellus: Something is rotten in the state of (Peru and/or the travellers' story).
EDIT
And I also agree why post the original 'story' midway through the thread when the link in the OP sufficed.
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
sawatch choss
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This thread is like a Rorshcach test for people's outlook on foreign travel, global inequality, shiny new gear etc. The level of prejudicial speculation is off the charts. I guess we'll have to see whatever version of the truth surfaces.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Rorshach? Darn Rhodo-Router, stop using big words, now I have to get my dictionary out. ;-)
I guess we'll have to see whatever version of the truth surfaces.
Being stuck at home as a full-time carer (I'd just as soon be out working), I have a lot of time on my hands and I have yet to come across any other version of the incident than what the travelers have written.
If somebody knows a link or article on the villagers' version, please post it.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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If somebody knows a link or article on the villagers' version, please post it. Head::InButt
If you find a version of this kind of story ever told on this planet during the history of man that doesn't basically sum up to wanting to take a richer man's money - please be sure to post it!
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wbw
Trad climber
'cross the great divide
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I'm very sorry for what has happened to these folks, but it must be said that this type of a trip to Peru is exactly what to do if you want this kind of trouble.
To take your truck to Peru from the USA, and make the same kind of car camping trip that I make to the Valley, or southern Utah is pretty naive to begin with. Then to go to a remote location like the region they were in and just pull over on a dirt road to camp out would draw attention from the poverty-stricken locals. The locals were most likely attempting to simply rob them; the use of rock barricades to stop vehicles is a common tactic in robberies that I have heard about in numerous cases in Peru. This includes robberies that occurred in much less remote places than the Ausungate region. Then, fighting the locals by not giving up their documents, and spraying them with bear spray turned the situation into a desperate struggle to survive.
I have traveled in almost all the various regions of Peru in eleven trips I have made there. I have thought about avoiding a scenario like this many times, and these folks made all of the mistakes possible. Any experienced international traveler, who travels discretely and respectfully could have predicted the outcome of a journey such as this. Any person in Lima would have warned these folks against such a trip. I'm amazed that they were not killed.
With due respect, this is a story of how the "ugly" American travels around the world clueless of the local cultural and socioeconomic factors, and gets themselves in trouble only to hope that the local American consulate will bail them out of trouble (which it generally is not inclined to do.) Safe travel in these kind of poor places is done by making wise decisions; not idealistic itineraries. This situation says a lot more about the kind of travelers these folks are, than it does about traveling in Peru or other poor countries. They truly are lucky it did not end worse.
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wbw
Trad climber
'cross the great divide
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Latin America = giant sh#t hole.
In the best case, always having to think about how the next person is going to try to get your money and how you're going to try to prevent it - non-fuking stop 24/7 game until you're on a plane out of the country - it gets old.
No thanks - did some trips, saw everything I wanted to see, never going back.
No, Latin America is not a giant sh#t hold, nor is it a bunch of happy-go-lucky folks singing to guitars and taking siestas.
Like most of the world, Latin America is very poor. People that live outside of the major cities and towns have hostilities toward their central government, because they just cannot escape living in the dirt. (Yes, even with their cell phones). In some cases, Americans personify their view of injustice in the world.
JLP is correct in that to travel in these places requires watching your back 24/7. It goes with the territory of third world travel. These folks from Jackson, Wyoming were clearly flaunting themselves as targets, and not at all watching their backs. Again, sorry for what happened, but grow up and get a clue.
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