Who the heck leaves a dog at 13k?

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rectorsquid

climber

Lake Tahoe

Aug 21, 2012 - 11:47am PT

Eating pigs is forbidden by the Bible and Koran and you'll find few Hindus or Buddhist that will eat them either. Jesus never ate pig nor condoned it for others. FWIW

Pork products are generally bad for humans if not cooked properly. The religious rules might have come from the desire to teach people to not eat tasty food that would kill them. It may not have anything to do with how smart or enlightened those pigs might have been. Heck, maybe they knew that bacon was of the devil and would kill their society slowly by clogging their arteries.

But maybe it was about about intelligence. Now intelligence, or maybe enlightenment, is a measure by which we decide what we can eat? That reminds me of a song...

"Dodo ugly so dodo must die... Mink is pretty so mink he must die... Cow is stupid so cow he must die..."

The guy took his dog onto that mountain with the agreement (with the dog) to take it home and he violated that agreement. That is what makes him a bad guy. If he had not had that agreement and had taken the dog up there to eat it then he should have eaten it. It's his failure to fulfill his end of the deal that makes him unworthy. Plus, he did abandon it so it really should not be his. Had he abandoned his cow, a cam, a ship at sea, then he would be giving up the right to those things too. That's what abandonment means. He gave it up that day.

I can't honestly say what type of guy he is beyond this. Everyone is worthy of forgiveness and everyone makes mistakes. I would certainly not act like a ten year old and call him names because of it. It is only his actions that we know about.

Dave

10b4me

Ice climber

dingy room at the Happy boulders hotel

Aug 21, 2012 - 12:09pm PT

Karl, you and I have been on the topo for a long time. I have met you, and like you. However, you sidetracked this thread. Sure, I care about all animals, but saving pigs, chickens, cows, and lions is going to require a change in societal thinking. Rescuing a dog doesn't .

Karl Baba

Trad climber

Yosemite, Ca

Aug 21, 2012 - 12:26pm PT

Look Ron, the fact is, Lions are raised for Slaughter. I was asking if you are for or against it. I can see you're for it. Fair enough. I'll put the Lions on side of the animals raised for food and you can have your special treatment for Dogs (and, I assume cats? You don't seem like a cat lover to me but ..)

Horses...can you send them to the glue factory when they get old or do you have to feed em until they die of old age? They are more on the companion side but still working animals

and working dogs that then kill animals... OK to shoot or do you have to put em on Dog welfare and keep em alive but not working with animals?

Peace

Karl

The Larry

climber

Moab, UT

Aug 21, 2012 - 12:31pm PT

Karl Baba

Trad climber

Yosemite, Ca

Aug 21, 2012 - 12:50pm PT

I'm making a point which is on topic for the content of the thread. BTW, the guy DID call for a rescue for the Dog. They said no. He was stupid and out of state and didn't know what else to do. He should have had booties for the dog yes but was clueless. It's actually a lot like those guys getting rescued from rapping El Cap. You can say he shoulda done this and that, and I say the same thing on the El Cap rapping thread but not everyone has the same mind, experience and skills. Doesn't mean he is evil anymore than somebody else is for eating animals

Ron writes

These ranches in Africa ARE FENCED, but to the tune of 400 thousand acres plus

Dude, you should be a fact checker for Fox news. Did you watch the video I posted from a network news source? It shows the Lions in their cages and shows the ranch owners themselves fighting tooth and nail against a law that would have required them to release the Lions from their cages into the greater ranch for some time before allowing their shooting.

I just didn't want to see folks get away with having a road rage thread against some fool without having to look at themselves either. I hardly see how what one-way contract we make with sentient creatures justifies whether we go all out for their comfort or put them in a box with their own feces and then kill them

PEace

Karl

Karl Baba

Trad climber

Yosemite, Ca

Aug 21, 2012 - 12:52pm PT

Larry, some guys from Hong Kong told me in Nepal (we were standing around a little black dog on the trail) that Black dogs were the best tasting dogs (and then addressing the dog with a laugh) "So good luck to you tonight!"

peace

Karl

Karl Baba

Trad climber

Yosemite, Ca

Aug 21, 2012 - 12:55pm PT

Watch the video Ron. The Lions being raised DO NOT RUN FREE. The Ranch owners were fighting hard against a law that would mandate it at the (early) end of the lions life.

I don't know about the elephants. I'm actually more for the paid hunting for some of the reasons you state than the factory farm biz.

I don't see why they don't just tranquilize all the Elephants (hunters could pay to do it) and cut off their tusks and get the Rhino horns while they are at it. Then there's no incentive to poach.

And what's with all this taking Rhino horns and Shark Fins? I can't believe they would be more effective than Viagra and it's cheaper too

Culture do have trouble changing

PEace

Karl

Karl Baba

Trad climber

Yosemite, Ca

Aug 21, 2012 - 01:19pm PT

edit: Yes perhaps that ONE Karl, but ive had expirience with folks in Africa for years and years. One went over four times before he finally got his leopard..

Watch the video bro. They interviewed numerous ranch owners. You think your friends who paid mega-thousands to shoot big game were shown the cages where the animals were raised? Of course not. You have to maintain the illusion that real hunting is going on. How do they raise thousands of Lions? In a closely fenced enclosure of course.

I'm not saying they aren't released to the big ranch when it's time to shoot them, but that's it. The ranch owners fought tooth and nail to avoid the law that would have required they run free for long enough to regain some wildness and fear of man

That one still image I posted may have been misleading the the size of the pens is clear in the video. IN the still, they are probably lined up at meal time at the side of the fence

Peace

Karl

kwit

climber

california

Aug 21, 2012 - 02:01pm PT

don't know if someone posted this already--i didn't see it:

http://www.outsideonline.com/blog/outdoor-adventure/man-who-left-dog-on-colorado-14er-faces-animal-cruelty-charges.html

Karl Baba

Trad climber

Yosemite, Ca

Aug 21, 2012 - 03:01pm PT

Got no complaints about your hunting btw Ron. It's not hypocrisy if you're looking the animal in the eye, gutting it yourself and eating it

Peace

karl

Karl Baba

Trad climber

Yosemite, Ca

Aug 21, 2012 - 03:02pm PT

sooo are you gonna bring DOG to the blackrock bar-b-q?

No but if I can eat some pussy I might be tempted.

But don't worry. I'll catch and release

Sorry, I couldn't resist

peace

Karl

Karl Baba

Trad climber

Yosemite, Ca

Aug 21, 2012 - 03:06pm PT

Just because this whole thread is about this incident, perhaps it's wise to post the owner's response so we're not just going on speculation

"Hi all,

I am the owner of the German Shepard girl found on Mt. Bierstadt.

I need to know the name of the vet clinic that Missy is at so I can go see her and re-reimburse them for helping her, and if I am fortunate enough, to bring her home.

I am at a complete loss of words. My gratitude for the people involved in this is without measure.

Missy was hurt during an attempt at crossing the Sawtooth. It was Missy, a friend and I. Her paws got bloodied up right in the belly of the sawtooth. I was assisting her with the climb using ropes and a harness for a while but she kept getting hurt worse. A few kind hikers stopped and offered some assistance but incoming weather pushed people off of the saddle. My friend and I realized that we could not get Missy up the saddle to Evans or Bierstadt safely so we decided to bail off of the saddle into the valley between the two mountains to escape the incoming clouds. We were lowering her for a while with ropes from boulder to boulder but she was hurting herself worse against the rocks sprawling out and catching them with her legs. Eventually she just stopped standing or moving at all and I knew she was pretty badly hurt. I picked her up on my shoulders and was hopping from boulder to boulder but I couldn't keep her on me. I dropped her once and I almost fell once too and I realized that I couldn't carry her off of the mountain. At this point I made the decision that I honestly never thought I would even be faced with. I left her there so that my friend and I could get down safely with intentions of calling S&R when we were off of the mountian. We both spent about two hours trying to move her up and down the mountain and were pretty exhausted. Neither one of us wanted to hike up the saddle with the cloud cover growing so we continued down into the valley and hiked back to Guanella Pass Rd. It was a lot farther than we thought it would be, and we got lost several times. A group of hunters showed us the way out and gave us a ride back to our car. Thank you to them as well.

I called 911, the sheriffs office and search and rescue and I was told that it was to risky for them to send rescue crew up there for a dog, which was upsetting but understandable. I'll admit that while trying to get off of the the mountain I was not as concerned because I was focused on making it safely off of the mountain, but once I was safely at my car I was overwhelmed with the loss, and the decision to leave her there. The next couple of days was absolutely horrible wondering about her, if she was alive, or if she died. Thinking about her suffering was awful beyond words. Many confidants comforted me by saying that she was probably gone from injury. All I can say is that I am relieved that she is okay, I am ashamed that it was not me that started this thread, I am ashamed that it wasn't me who got her off of the mountain, I underestimated the good will and resolve of the hiking community of Colorado, and I am eternally grateful to all of you and to 9news. I humbly beg the forgiveness of the community and most of all my Missy Girl. Thank you all from the bottom of my heart."

cliffhanger

Trad climber

California

Aug 21, 2012 - 04:37pm PT

"A terrible, cruel way to die, abandoned on a mountain"

What? It's a great way to die, if one has to die. A bad way to die is gassed in the county pound. Or for a human tortured to death by the medical vultures in a hospital.

Rene Desmaison:

From 342 Hours on the Grandes Jorasses: "It's so difficult to accept nothingness... You would like to know how things really are beyond life, be sure it's not all a big joke, but, as big as it may be, how can a joke survive for millenia? Look how beautiful are the stars in the coal black sky, those little twinkling gems, those little fantastic worlds. You've got Creation before your eyes, here, on this same mountain that's taking your life and you can't hate, not even now. And what if truth is really here, amongst these pyramids of granite?"

"He shouldn't be allowed to have another pet"

Again, there are millions of dogs and cats put down by animal control that would love to take their chances with him or even with someone 1/100000 as good.

Karl Baba

Trad climber

Yosemite, Ca

Aug 21, 2012 - 04:41pm PT

Since he can't be prohibited from having another pet (and they wont do it in the court based on the circumstances) He can get another Dog if they don't give Missy back to him. Do you really think he regularly mistreats her?

Come on, read his response. He might have acted weakly under pressure but he's no monster

peace

Karl

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber

Pomfert VT

Aug 21, 2012 - 05:00pm PT

Ron Anderson. you continually show no compassion for humans. you may rescue them and give moey to good causes but if you listen to what you type on this site there is not much compassion for humans. mostly you attack humans on a large variety of issue which brings me back to my OP.
Treat your humans as well as you treat your dog and this world would be a much better place....

ncrockclimber

climber

The Desert Oven

Aug 21, 2012 - 06:15pm PT

Carl brings up a lot of great points. He points out the hypocrisy in many of us (me included) regarding how we define cruelty towards animals. I will not argue with him on any of those points as they have given me more than a little pause.

That being said, lets not forget the one important thing - Anthony abandoned his dog to die. Other than a phone call, he did nothing to try and save her. He seems to be really good at making excuses and justifying his status as a "good person", but when his dog needed him he decided that it was too much trouble to do anything more than make a phone call.

Does this guy sound like a monster? No. However, his actions show him to be lacking in some basic qualities. Empathy and kindness are nothing more than empty words unless they are backed by action. When the time came, he did not take the most minimal actions required to save his dog.

What makes this more troubling is that in the thread on 14ers, Anthony and his friends maintain that he is a "great" guy and and a "great" pet owner. Up until that day, he might have been. Even after leaving his pup to save himself and his friend, he could have still been a good pet owner. I don't fault him for that; to me human life comes first. However, for eight days he did nothing. That is the germane point here. You do not do that to an animal that you love. To claim otherwise is a lie. To claim otherwise shows that you don't understand what love is. A great guy and a great pet owner can make a ton of mistakes, but abandoning a dog to die is not one of them.

I do not advocate lynching this dude or violence against him. We all make mistakes and we all deserve forgiveness. I hope that he can come to understand how what he did was wrong and that he finds peace and grows from this. However, I will not accept his excuses for his actions and claims that he is a great owner and a good person. In this case he was neither. By his own admission, he left the dog to die. He should not get it back.

Karl Baba

Trad climber

Yosemite, Ca

Aug 21, 2012 - 06:17pm PT

I guess that means you won't be voting for Romney then Ron!

http://theweek.com/article/index/223314/for-the-dogs-gingrichs-shameless-romney-attack-ad

peace

karl

Before beginning the drive, Mitt Romney put Seamus, the family’s hulking Irish setter, in a dog carrier and attached it to the station wagon’s roof rack. He’d built a windshield for the carrier, to make the ride more comfortable for the dog.
Then Romney put his boys on notice: He would be making predetermined stops for gas, and that was it.
The ride was largely what you’d expect with five brothers, ages 13 and under, packed into a wagon they called the ”white whale.”
As the oldest son, Tagg Romney commandeered the way-back of the wagon, keeping his eyes fixed out the rear window, where he glimpsed the first sign of trouble. ”Dad!” he yelled. ”Gross!” A brown liquid was dripping down the back window, payback from an Irish setter who’d been riding on the roof in the wind for hours.
As the rest of the boys joined in the howls of disgust, Romney coolly pulled off the highway and into a service station. There, he borrowed a hose, washed down Seamus and the car, then hopped back onto the highway. It was a tiny preview of a trait he would grow famous for in business: emotion-free crisis management.

corniss chopper

climber

breaking the speed of gravity

Aug 21, 2012 - 06:31pm PT

The government rescues their own dogs all the time but if you or I
need their dog rescued in CLEAR CREEK COUNTY COLORADO the answer in NO!
Police dogs need a helicopter - no problem, but if your dog is injured
on a hike...better carry it out yourself or die trying because else you'll be prosecuted for animal cruelty.

Imagine you have to carry a 100lb sack of jelly from the Portal to the top of Whitney and back down. No one could do that without 5 people to rotate the weight between. But its not jelly but your own crippled dog. And you
can't lift her anymore after several hundred feet of off trail talus hopping because their is no one to spell you on the carry! And a storm is breaking and the teenager in your care is not strong enough to carry 100lbs at 14k. So...

Are we having fun yet?

somewhere in the pacific wwII