Top 20 Tahquitz/Suicide Climbs on Mtn. Project

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
This thread has been locked
Messages 121 - 140 of total 272 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
looking sketchy there...

Social climber
Latitute 33
Apr 14, 2012 - 01:10am PT
DE, that picture of Ricky was taken by me with my camera. I made a big print of it and had it mounted in masonite (at the time I was inspired by Larry Reynold's big B&W prints of Ivan Couch). Anyway, a few years back I pulled it out of storage and gave it to you. Bummer is I think the negatives all got lost.

Murf. Just about snorted my Ale out the nose with that post.

This thread has me getting psyched for Summer. Maybe I can tick a few new ones.
dogtown

Trad climber
Cheyenne, Wyoming and Marshall Islands atoll.
Apr 14, 2012 - 03:16am PT
Hi, Todd

Well, I’m happy to report I have lead them all, but one The Pirate. There are so many classic routes it’s no doubt my all time favorite day trip crag. Thought I would throw out a few more routes for the list All on Suicide just off the top of my head;

The Iron Cross 5.11a
New Generation 5.11c
Voodoo Child 5.11b
Ten Karat Gold 5.10a
Sampson 5.9
Mickey Mantle 5.8
Rebolting Development 5.11a
Jammit 5.9
The Man who fell to Earth 5.11a
Moondance 5.11 c

I heard from some folks that the crag doesn’t see that much activity these days. If that’s the case and I was out there I would be there every chance I got ! Just like the old days.

Have fun out there!

Dr.F
Pay no attention to Hensel for years he was the king of Suicide! But I do agree both of the big guys Largo and Gaines have a lot of footage out there.

Bruce
can't say

Social climber
Pasadena CA
Apr 14, 2012 - 09:22am PT
I think I've seen people on almost every route at both crags over the years. What I'm curious about is there a particular route the collective hasn't done yet or know of anyone doing? One that jumps to mind for me is the Frightful Variation 11d. to the right of Angels Fright. I'm sure there is more to the name then what I remember, but it's in the Wilt's guide.
BG

Trad climber
JTree & Idyllwild
Apr 14, 2012 - 09:39am PT
But Gaines, who's been up there for like 65 years

I'm only 52!

I think it's truly remarkable and impressive that Darrell Hensel has done every route at Suicide, and my guess is that he's done more routes at T&S than anyone.

I might have the record for the most first ascents (136).
Tony Bird

climber
Northridge, CA
Apr 14, 2012 - 10:31am PT
rest assured, murf, i've climbed around here for 30 years and i know a bit about it. if russ is the one throwing the big party, i wish him well with it, and i forgive his bottitude this once.

i'm not out to make a big issue of todd, but i think he could easily become one. i wish him well too, with the party, the roof on his house, his bolt placements, which seem to be so impeccable they don't need to be discussed (a real first in the history of climbing), and his rumored upcoming guidebook to the many, many sport climbs of joshua tree national park. maybe it's just me, but i keep getting the feeling that a lot of people are keeping hush-hush about these subjects so the book will have good sales. i was in the newspaper business, and i know the value of a scoop. still, i think a thread called "moderate sport routes in JTNP" could become the hottest climbing post in southern california, way hotter than this one, and there would be fewer broken bones out there while people are waiting for the presses to roll.

would such a thread cut into guidebook sales? yes, it might, a bit, but an authoritative guidebook on the subject is bound to have great sales anyway. someone who really cares about the climbing community, especially the next generation of it, shouldn't give a damn about the sales graph.
deejay

Trad climber
AV
Apr 14, 2012 - 10:58am PT
Hairlip at least deserves honorable mention if not top 20. Done 14 on that list but a list of only 20 doesn't do the place just justice. This thread has me phsyched to get back out there.

Dr. F, check your So Cal bouldering guide. It has that same photo called out as Wagon Wheel.
can't say

Social climber
Pasadena CA
Apr 14, 2012 - 11:20am PT
there's a bunch of routes at both crags that have been noted as worthy of the list or at least of note, yet some of them are one or two move wonders. Routes like Super Pooper, Dave's Deviation, Etude, Even El Camino with its last move issues is over too soon. I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder and all that. But what makes them worthy for inclusion? To me there should be a sustained nature element to the climbing.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Apr 14, 2012 - 11:23am PT
I don't see what is so tough about the gear on Iron Cross. that thin crack takes bomber gear. Start with a 1 inch cam and build your system from there.

Now that Purple Rain thing that comes to the Iron Cross crack from the other side so your rope is pulling out on the first gear you get is another kind of game altogether...
tooth

Trad climber
B.C.
Apr 14, 2012 - 11:25am PT
all but 6
Russ Walling

Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
Apr 14, 2012 - 11:52am PT
I think this topic brings out the difference between conservatives and liberal/progressives

Conservatives: deals with the problems at face value, and doesn't want any handouts or coddling, ie: retro bolts

Libs: always wanting more, and are mostly pussies looking for something for free, ie: added bolts that someone else paid for.

Whenever I even think for a second about adding a bolt to an established route, I now ask myself, "what would BlueRing do???" and then just keep climbing.

Always liked that Daves Devo thing. And Human Fright.
Rick A

climber
Boulder, Colorado
Apr 14, 2012 - 12:05pm PT
Speaking of added bolts, I was not familiar with "The Price of Fear," mentioned above. I looked it up in Randy's guide and it's one I've done, but under another name.

In the old Wilts guide, this route was described as a variation on Super Pooper, the Mckinny-Prodonavitch, named after the first ascent team. Tobin and Matt Cox did the first free ascent in 1972, and I did it with Gib or Richard later in the 70's.

In Randy's guide, it shows three bolts before the end of the pitch, but these three bolts were not mentioned in Wilts' description. And I don't recall them either.

Were these bolts added later, or is my memory just wrong?
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Apr 14, 2012 - 12:24pm PT
If route was put up with very poor pro, and is on the verge of being a death trap, and only the most expert climbers can repeat it...
It should be fixed, as a gift to the climbing community.

I laugh robustly at your pussyness!!

FACT: Iron Cross is almost challenging enough to be a warm-up for The Pirate.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Apr 14, 2012 - 01:07pm PT
What I'm curious about is there a particular route the collective hasn't done yet or know of anyone doing? One that jumps to mind for me is the Frightful Variation 11d. to the right of Angels Fright. I'm sure there is more to the name then what I remember, but it's in the Wilt's guide.
-----


The Frightful Fright was one of the last old aid routes left at Tahquitz when I caught wind of it sometime in the last 70s. Seems like we did most everything in that area that was natural and obvious including a direct finish to Blankity Blank. Then I went up and took a close look at Frightful Fright with Eric E. We both thought it would go but - it was just a short but clearly grim section on (I think) the first pitch. But the thin crack was plugged up with some old fixed gear so we had to spend that first exploratory dicking around hammering and cleaning stuff to free up the finger locks and I remember relocating one of the pins so the crux was well protected. I went back up there with Mike Lechlinski and we both did it right off but it felt hard.

Some years later I saw that it was rated 5.11d and always wondered who repeated it how they ever arrived at that rating. It seemed harder, like a nasty boulder sequence in the middle of a 5.10 pitch, but we were working the bong pretty liberally back in those days so who knows. I haven't thought about that route in, like, 75 years, and have never heard of anyone else who ever did it.

Also, as I said way back on this thread, I think an old EE route called Sugar Magnolia is a real good one, as is Arpa Carpa and the little known, Wild Gazongas, which is one of the first times Rick Accomazzo ran the rope big time. Other obscurites include Litle Momma (cranker hard crux and worthless route), The Reach (top flight), Paux de Deux (sp??) direct, Flakes of Wrath with the direct finish, and the 10a route on Eagle Pinnacle, which is a spooker. And if Double Exposure had a good and reasonable start it too would be all time. The free start is hard and flaky and shitty and the aid start is, well, aid. Too bad.

JL

PS: And the 5.11d rating for Race with the Devil is just silly talk. That's a 5.12 start if ever there was one and a normal 5.11 leader would sh#t a cinder block trying to on sight this one. I remember leading this right after Tony did it and thinking I was basically soloing the first pitch. Later I head that Henny soloed the opening lead and that made sense because Henny was good like that. You might as well. I went back there in the mid-80s with DB and Mari and shite had ripped off and it was a pretty grim 10 or so feet to get started and standing up in that little scallop. I remember standing there at the bottom with Mari trying to figure out where the holds were. Find that in the middle of a pitch somewhere and it's .12c.

And what about Picante? I had to take over the lead for Henny because he got frightened up top when the hold thinned out and he didn't know what to do. And if you believe that . . .

Todd Gordon

Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 14, 2012 - 01:41pm PT
You could post about vanilla pudding on supertopo, and it would more than not, turn into some internet spat and boiling pot, wouldn't it. Tony Bird makes a good point;...as far as sport routes and joshua Tree go (sort of changing the T/S subject just for a wee moment...)...yes, there are about 700 well protected sport climbs at j tree....I like to share info and have on forums and alot on mtn. project....I don't withhold info for up-coming books sales, and I am working on a sport guide which I'd like to finish 2012/2013 season (we all know how that goes.......)....sometimes I am tight-lipped for other reasons; ....bolts and sport climbs almost always create controversy in the climbing world and with Gov. agencies;......being a local hopeful and new route kinda-guy, this be a pot I don't often like to stir, especially after recient internet chatter and banter about the shinannigans that went down in a wilderness area where climbers didn't represent themselves favorably. Joshua tree is my home and a place where there is still so much wildnerness that is almost unexplored for the most part. Controversies and bad press with climbers is ammo and fodder for more gov. rules and regs.........so I often choose not to participate in such discussions,....not out of possible book sales, elitism, or snobbery, but for reasons that it's often best not to open pandora's box and keep our live's as simple, positive, and carefree as we can in a world that isn't so simple, positive, and carefree. Thanks for the thoughts, Tony, and if you come to the Gordofest next weekend, you can trade opinions with Murf in person....(hope he has had his coffee....);....I often do;.....Murf does know alot,...but he doesn't know everything;...only Bill Russell, Chuck Chongo, Dick Cilley, and Tucker Tech know everything....(just ask them so, and they will tell you .....get all four of them together an we could solve global warming, world peace, the price of gas, and pink slime.....)..When you are done talking about climbing with Murf, Dr. F and TGT want to talk with you about politics...(At 57 years old, I'm more concerned with getting my kids ready and off to school, the senior menu at Dennys, liver spots and a heavy bowell movement ....that's my focus..) ....climb on........now back to Tahquitz/Suicide......

Tony Bird

climber
Northridge, CA
Apr 14, 2012 - 02:11pm PT
i appreciate that, todd, very, very much. i don't go to josh for sport climbing, but i do think it's important to direct people to it--the american climbers fresh out of their gyms and the euros who are used to bolting which is much more closely spaced. these are the people having the accidents--or sometimes they're just people who come to josh and go away disappointed, without climbing much. if locals want to do something about that, you might consider some sort of "hosting" network. it could even grow out of the climber's coffees.

as i pointed out on other threads, i think gaines's new guide lists only half a dozen routes suitable for most beginning leaders in sport climbing, and if you go through the mountain project listing for josh and set it for "sport climbs", you'll find that just about every one of those that comes through is in fact labeled a "trad" climb. if you've made some efforts here, i haven't come across them, and sorry if i got the wrong idea. i'm trying to stand up for beginners, and i hope the oldtimers try to understand why they're frustrated. the climbing scene has changed--it seems to do that every few years--and i think it's important to adapt to changes.

all i know about dick cilley is that he knows everything there is to know about italian literature. if murf and i wind up at the same party, we might wind up exchanging more than opinions, so i'll stay home, but the offer i made through russ about roof work still stands.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Apr 14, 2012 - 02:44pm PT
at I'm curious about is there a particular route the collective hasn't done yet or know of anyone doing? One that jumps to mind for me is the Frightful Variation 11d. to the right of Angels Fright. I'm sure there is more to the name then what I remember, but it's in the Wilt's guide.
-----

Frightful Fright. Frightful Variation is the easy route to the left of Angels


It does get done, I've seen parties on it at least a few times over the years. At least one of them finished it and seemed quite relieved to get to Lunch Ledge.

I've only run into one party ever that finished Big Daddy, Little Momma and Upside Down Cake up on the summit block.

They thought both were significantly harder than the old book rating.

Those three certainly don't get much traffic.
blr

climber
socal
Apr 14, 2012 - 03:10pm PT
16 out of 20, 18 if you count hangdogs and TR’s.

Ksolem: I distinctly remember that gear problem on Red Rain - a grey TCU and micronut being pulled straight out of that shallow flare, with a bad fall trajectory if they rip… scary.

A few more good ones I don’t think I’ve seen mentioned:
-Double Exposure
-Walk the Plank
-Manwich

How about Chisholm Trail?

Suicide is probably my favorite crag to climb at. Between the quality of rock, the interesting features, the history, and the beautiful setting, it just doesn’t get any better.
People seem to be especially friendly and helpful up there too. I know Clark Jacobs always seems happy to give good beta and recommendations… and won’t sandbag you either.
BG

Trad climber
JTree & Idyllwild
Apr 14, 2012 - 04:18pm PT
The Frightful Fright was one of the last old aid routes left at Tahquitz when I caught wind of it sometime in the last 70s. Seems like we did most everything in that area that was natural and obvious including a direct finish to Blankity Blank. Then I went up and took a close look at Frightful Fright with Eric E. We both thought it would go but - it was just a short but clearly grim section on (I think) the first pitch. But the thin crack was plugged up with some old fixed gear so we had to spend that first exploratory dicking around hammering and cleaning stuff to free up the finger locks and I remember relocating one of the pins so the crux was well protected. I went back up there with Mike Lechlinski and we both did it right off but it felt hard.

Some years later I saw that it was rated 5.11d and always wondered who repeated it how they ever arrived at that rating.

Hey John:

It's rated 5.11d in the guidebook, and according to my records "FFA John Long and Mike Lechlinski, 1978", so I guess the rating came from you guys, although we all know Mike was a notorious sandbagger!

My recollection of the route is that every pitch deserves an "R" rating. The first pitch has some largely unprotected 5.10 face climbing up to the belay ledge shared with Human Fright.

The second pitch begins with unprotected, 5.10 face climbing, up to the crux: a crimpy thin crack/face section (5.12-) protected soley by an old, rusty pin (a knifeblade I believe) which, if it were to pull, would send you on a gigantic, slab-splashing, factor two fall.

The third pitch has 5.10 face climbing at ankle-breaking distance above a ledge, then you clip a vintage Royal Robbins bolt (placed in 1953 on Royal's A2 FA) to protect the final moves up to Lunch Ledge.

It never gets done 'cause it's too f*ing scary! Frightful Fright is an appropriate name.

In 1978 it ranked right up there with the most serious and difficult climbs for the time. It never acheived classic status 'cause the rock quality is a pit poor on pitch 2.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Apr 14, 2012 - 04:19pm PT
PS: And the 5.11d rating for Race with the Devil is just silly talk. That's a 5.12 start if ever there was one and a normal 5.11 leader would sh#t a cinder block trying to on sight this one. I remember leading this right after Tony did it and thinking I was basically soloing the first pitch.

You're right about that one. It was probably right around 1990 when Too Strong talked me into doing that first pitch. He assured me that I would be fine. If I fell before the bolt he would simply catch me. If I fell after the bolt he would run down through the talus, and stop me at the bolt. For some reason I believed him. After that pitch I was cooked so he led the second.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Apr 14, 2012 - 06:58pm PT
Brother Gaines wrote: The second pitch begins with unprotected, 5.10 face climbing, up to the crux: a crimpy thin crack/face section (5.12-) protected soley by an old, rusty pin (a knifeblade I believe) which, if it were to pull, would send you on a gigantic, slab-splashing, factor two fall.


Hmmmmm. I only remember thinking, "This feels real." But we had been climbing up there a lot for going on seven or eight years by then and you know how it goes after a while - anything under about 10c you just motor over and keep the sac tight for the hard shite. Somebody might want to replace that rusty blade and the 1952 Robbins bolt. Then maybe it might see some traffic. Get some young piston to go up there and sort it out, Bob, and report back once it's a done thing.

JL
Messages 121 - 140 of total 272 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
 
Our Guidebooks
spacerCheck 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks

guidebook icon
Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Recent Route Beta