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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 25, 2012 - 02:52pm PT
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Ron. people are up in arms about a lot more than one case. It took this caSE to spotlight the flaws in the law but there have been many bad shootings that have walked due to the law. I have absolutly no problem with a stand your ground law. heck i think you should be allowed to fire and manuver, outflank the perp and take em down fron behind provideing they are armed and and have started a gunfight. i feel very strongly however that you should NOT be allowed to shoot anyone simply because you are afraid of them.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 25, 2012 - 03:22pm PT
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I feel this law better demonstrates that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. They had a reasonable idea in that I can not run 2495fps therefor I should be able to shoot the perp with the AK rather than try to run away from him. They ended up with a law that allows you to kill unarmed people simply because you are afraid of them.
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zBrown
Ice climber
Chula Vista, CA
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Mar 25, 2012 - 08:45pm PT
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this guy has more capacity to judge life threats than punk Z-man. Shouldn't he be licensed to kill too?
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Mar 25, 2012 - 09:12pm PT
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Thats it, I am never going on a climbing trip to Florida ever again. God I am going to miss those walls!
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aspendougy
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Mar 25, 2012 - 09:33pm PT
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The Florida law flies in the face of a fundamental principle of law enforcement and public safety. Flight is the option that experts recommend in most situations, as it is less likely to result in serious injury or death, as opposed to standing and fighting.
If you are in your home and feel threatened, you can rightfully use your gun to defend yourself, but what if the thief has a more powerful gun, a flak vest and is better trained at close range shooting than you?
You are still better off running out the back door and letting the guy take what he wants. If you want to play Rambo, go ahead, but you are risking your precious life for some silly property of some sort.
Zimmerman was evidently given proper advice by law enforcement, but failed to follow it, and the results were a tragic loss of life.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Mar 25, 2012 - 09:58pm PT
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It ain't the place that is weird it is the people.
I love beaches, reefs, sailing, canoeing, swamps, airboats, rum drinks, and hot women in bikinis.
(definitely not in that order)
The climbing potential is pretty non-existent but if you need to heal a tendon sheath anyway,..
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Mar 25, 2012 - 10:31pm PT
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Dr. F,
you refer to a ban on assault rifles.
Could you please define "assault rifle", and tell me specifically what "ban" you are referring to?
(I said "please")
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Mar 26, 2012 - 01:25pm PT
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Here's another relevant piece from the NY Times that some of you may have missed:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/24/opinion/floridas-disastrous-self-defense-law.html?_r=1&src=tp&smid=fb-share
It's written by the former Miami chief of police who, along with many other chief of police in Florida, signed a letter opposing the passage of Stand Your Ground when the law was discussed in legislature. It's nice that the guns nuts see fit to ignore the advice of those persons actually in charge of our public safety. I guess they will argue that the police are just another sign of unnecessary big government.
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Chewybacca
Trad climber
Montana, Whitefish
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Mar 26, 2012 - 02:01pm PT
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I wonder how different this story would be treated by the media if the kid had killed Zimmerman. After all, the kid was being followed, that can feel pretty threatening.
The fact that Zimmerman was following the kid, despite the pleadings of the 911 dispatcher, makes it difficult to claim he was standing his ground.
Here is an odd twist to this story- http://www.ajc.com/news/new-black-panthers-offer-1398575.html
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Mar 26, 2012 - 03:37pm PT
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Ok people pay attention here is the case in a nut shell for you arm chair lawyers.
Zimmerman was following the kid. Told to stop following by 911 dispatch. Continued to follow the kid.
He was not standing his ground he was provoking the kid to act and when he did he shot and killed him.
Zimmerman is going to prison and he will get a plea deal but he will be going to prison and this stand your ground law will be repealed.
If Zimmerman is going to prison, that must mean that the the "stand your ground law" doesn't immunize him from prosecution.
So what's the problem with the law?
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Mar 26, 2012 - 04:01pm PT
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If Zimmerman is going to prison, that must mean that the the "stand your ground law" doesn't immunize him from prosecution.
So what's the problem with the law?
My problem with the law (as opposed to the problem with the law) is that it creates a defense based on a state of mind, and the cases construing it appear to require the prosecution to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the defendant lacked that state of mind. It then goes on to insulate the defendant from liability in tort under state law if the defendant is found innocent.
This effectively prevents any objective punishment for, or review or compensation from, dangerous and devastating actions, and promotes neither justice nor safety.
John
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rectorsquid
climber
Lake Tahoe
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Mar 26, 2012 - 04:39pm PT
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Different view of what may have happened, says the kid attacked him. I would like to see a PD of the 2 of them. Giant football player vs. 98lb geek or what are we looking at. What if Zimmerman was a female ?
Most people would want to attack a person that is stalking them with a gun. The kid may have acted in self-defense when confronted by an unknown person with a gun who had no business even talking to him that night. Did Zimmerman identify himself and his intentions or just start acting like he was the criminal?
They both were scared for their lives at some point during all of this but only one of them went out that night with a gun with the intention of shooting someone, should the need arise. The other just wanted to get home with his candy.
This is like hiding in the closet with a gun and waiting each night until your wife finally has a lover over to visit. It would clearly be a crime of passion because you had no way of knowing that your wife's lover would show up that night.
Dave
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Mar 26, 2012 - 09:22pm PT
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I would be having a couple drinks with my friends in the Black Panther Party
I'm thinking this scene is kind of like the painting of dogs playing poker.
then I would borrow an arsenal.
LOL
"Excuse me sir, but could I borrow your weapons and ammo to go storm a police station?"
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Mar 26, 2012 - 09:49pm PT
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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Mar 26, 2012 - 09:52pm PT
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This guy f*#ked up real, real bad by stalking and killing this kid.
This is a moron of legendary scale.
Being a paranoid, pathetic, lunatic, loser is no excuse for murder.
They need to do a psyche evaluation on Zimmerman..
How many times has he called the police?
Any psychiatrist could tell you the tone of his voice and how paranoid he sounded talking about the kid, isn't a normal paranoia. He's probably got some kind of Schizophrenia or something...
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Mar 26, 2012 - 11:54pm PT
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Manzanita man: Agreed about waiting for all the info on this particular case. I do think however that it's a poorly constructed law.
One thing that I have read that is not in congruence with your post is that there is no registered Neighborhood watch group in that neighborhood. Zimmerman was self-appointed watchman on an imaginary force. Do you have sources where it is stated there was one? Also, it is my understanding that Neighborhood Watch Groups (official ones) are prohibited from carrying guns. Again this points to his imaginary status on an imaginary group.
Not saying you are wrong. Just curious where you got your info. I'm curious to read it.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Mar 27, 2012 - 12:36am PT
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I'm not a great speculator. I won't speculate about an acquittal because I'm not at all certain there will be an arrest at all. Or a trial.
Or maybe you mean the grand jury no-bills this? Who knows what will happen in terms of riots if that happens. I personally don't think it'll have squat to do with the presidential election personally.
Whatever happens, Zimmerman's life is forever changed. Not sure if he'll be found to scare someone else who pops him or what. But he clearly will have to go the way of Casey Anthony - live very quietly. :/
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