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Jon Taylor
Trad climber
Gardnerville
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Despite the interesting comments i will have to say adieu as well...aiden
Here are a few photos, notice that in one I am in Galibier Superguides while Mr. Sumner is in a ratty old pair of EBs (I think he stole em from Dexter) while bouldering at the Pie Shop in stylish flannel shirt and jeans...so Cute
These are pretty early - late 70- early 80 or so
There are also some pics of a very early up of Vanishing Point with Bill Todd in the lead (I am not sure either a first or second Rick?, Jim Orey may have gotten there first) Sorry for the poor quality (scanned in), we had to put Todd in the lead for that big reach around the roof.
Also (Aiden you may have fun here) there are some pics of Jay Smith and I down at Bear River Resvr (Late 70s/early 80s) (Hwy 88) which to my knowledge has not seen any action at all, most head for Calaveras). Perfect Flat Stone campground, fresh water, short walk...
Ron I found those pics, I will scan em and post over at the "Golden Age Thread"
Aiden, we still love ya man...
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Tripod? Swellguy? Halfwit? Smegma?
Trad climber
Wanker Stately Mansion, Placerville
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 2, 2012 - 03:11pm PT
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Oh Chalky your such a tease!
Despite your harsh tone I can feel the love emanating through your playful words. I do remember the day we talked. You told my lovely female friend to "shut the f*#k up", then we slapped each other on the back like long lost bothers and laughed heartily.
Ahhh.... those were the days. I certainly hope your well and that the dumpster diving business has been good to you?
I look forward to hearing more of your dulcet tones in the future when we meet again.
Call me next time you need bailing out
Lovingly,
a xx
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Tripod? Swellguy? Halfwit? Smegma?
Trad climber
Wanker Stately Mansion, Placerville
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 2, 2012 - 08:44pm PT
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I'm fine with the proposal, but I won't be the one to chop bolts except on my own routes.
Like I said, some sort of consensus would be good
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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did vanishing point originally
surmount the roof?
i understand the roof
to be third stone from the sun,
and separate from vanishing point.
the logical route
to me would be the wide
crack of the vanishing point
dihedral into the
roof crack.
either way,
it is all very good
climbing up there.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Congratulations gentlemen, we seem to have reached a consensus and Aiden seems to have agreed to restore Tapestry. Aiden the first bolt was a few moves up the start of the steep section at the first drillable stance and as high as Bill's 6'-2" stance would allow.The second bolt was way to high off the deck (approx. 110'). I'm sure Todd's ghost would smile approvingly at your action. Ron i'll give you some info on our Woodfords (early to mid 70's) activities on our upcoming trip. John has agreed to come also.As for Vanishing Point, it was originally 5.10 A-1- the A-1 being a point of aid exiting to the left at the first overhang well below the Third Stone roof. John you, i, and Todd did it free in 1975, not the late 70's.
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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There is no consensus. Please don't remove the two Velvets.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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nah, cut all of them BUT after June please. I still want to get a little stronger and try them out ; )
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Salamanizer
Trad climber
The land of Fruits & Nuts!
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Vanishing point cuts out left under the first big roof at the pin.
I've climbed the whole roof system going out right and exiting just to the right of Third Stone Offwidth. I remember it being somewhat spooky as it's too wide for cams and you really gotta lieback hard into a pod. Then you have to still exit that pod with no gear across the face a few moves to a small ledge. Maybe 5.10b... the exit Rigth of Third Stone is like 5.11 flaring and awkward for a move or two.
Third Stone is a total different route all together and never intersects Vanishing Point. It starts up a mildly loose right facing corner about 15ft right of Vanishing Point. Two pitches. Don't stop at the sling belay on the horn. Continue up to just under the roof and belay at a sling belay here. The Third Stone roof is the obvious gaping maw, dead horizontal offwidth distinguished by it's three distinctly different chockstones that all roll in different directions. The three chockstones are visible from the ground. Visible from the campground in fact. It's about equal difficulty as getting into the Harding Slot on Astroman. The .10c grade is not an accurate representation for what you'll encounter.
John Taylor, cool seeing the old photos of Bear River. That is a place that sees little traffic but has had a fair bit of new routes go up over the past decade or so. I know the route in your photo. Starts on a large chockstone wedged down in the river between two domes. The bolts are falling out of the wall... literally. The anchor is a crusty bolt with some white webbing of which the other bolt of the anchor has fallen out and is dangling off of. I wouldn't hang my chalk bag off it. I had to bail out right along a ledge with a 100ft solo to reach a good anchor spot. Do you remember the name of the route or did you give it one? How about the Domes? You know who climbed the big dihedral on the large dome way in the back of the canyon opposite of where your photos were taken? I always assumed it was Jay Smith. Curious minds want to know.
I've been climbing out there for a while now. Put up about 15 routes so far. All ground up and bolted on lead. Everything from 5.6 to 5.12.
The place has always had that adventurous feel. No guidebooks, just a few scattered pages of scribble here and there.
There were a bunch of yahoos grid bolting a wall out there a few years ago. They paved over a couple old routes that had no fixed gear and pissed off some of the long time residents. Needless to say, a bunch of crap got the chop and I took the heat. They were pissed because we chopped all the bolts they placed next to cracks. Go figure!!! They're lucky any bolts were left at all on the retroed routes. Anyway, that's all sorted out now and the place still has that remote, adventurous feel.
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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sal,
i've been up the first pitch of 3rd stone
but i flailed on the roof. no send.
im keen for another try,
with a new plan of attack.
i'll trade you a route for a route,
if you join me on the third,
i'll hold your rope and follow you up whatever you choose.
you done up from the skies yet?
the leap season is not far off.
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Jon Taylor
Trad climber
Gardnerville
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John Taylor, cool seeing the old photos of Bear River. That is a place that sees little traffic but has had a fair bit of new routes go up over the past decade or so. I know the route in your photo. Starts on a large chockstone wedged down in the river between two domes. The bolts are falling out of the wall... literally. The anchor is a crusty bolt with some white webbing of which the other bolt of the anchor has fallen out and is dangling off of. I wouldn't hang my chalk bag off it. I had to bail out right along a ledge with a 100ft solo to reach a good anchor spot. Do you remember the name of the route or did you give it one? How about the Domes? You know who climbed the big dihedral on the large dome way in the back of the canyon opposite of where your photos were taken? I always assumed it was Jay Smith. Curious minds want to know.
I've been climbing out there for a while now. Put up about 15 routes so far. All ground up and bolted on lead. Everything from 5.6 to 5.12.
The place has always had that adventurous feel. No guidebooks, just a few scattered pages of scribble here and there.
There were a bunch of yahoos grid bolting a wall out there a few years ago. They paved over a couple old routes that had no fixed gear and pissed off some of the long time residents. Needless to say, a bunch of crap got the chop and I took the heat. They were pissed because we chopped all the bolts they placed next to cracks. Go figure!!! They're lucky any bolts were left at all on the retroed routes. Anyway, that's all sorted out now and the place still has that remote, adventurous feel.
Smith and i went down for like two or three weekends early 70-ish, mostly we were between the domes, but made a foray down to the dihedral as it is quite obvious. Started late in the day but did not finish, Jay may have gone back later but we just went down to take a look. Generally Jay did not spend too much time down there as Calaveras was close and quite a bit bigger. That's about all I know. Nice place really I thought, easy to get to with a lot of opportunity. We never placed any bolts, pins dropped behind flakes, nuts etc....We never gave anything any names just wanted to get away from the crowds a bit so this was just for fun...We put up like 10-ish climbs but mainly we were just scoping the place out.
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213
climber
Where the Froude number often >> 1
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There is no consensus. Please don't remove the two Velvets.
I agree with caughtinside's sentiments.
But, by all means, feel free to skip the bolts! Or better yet, leave the rope at home and move upwards with the best style. Who will argue with that?
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Salamanizer
Trad climber
The land of Fruits & Nuts!
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Weege, I'll take you up on that offer. Even if it's just to watch you send that beastly roof.
I climbed the first pitch of Up From the Skies, but starting the second pitch I couldn't reach the aid bolts to gain the face. After the feature known as the "rats tooth" fell off, you can't get out there far enough to clip those manky bolts. Alas, I have a plan! It includes working an alternate "free" start complete with crap drill stances, possible hooking and much flailing graceless whipping. Of course, I could use a cheater stick. But that's ghey and I will have no part. Unless plan (A) fails.
Smith and i went down for like two or three weekends early 70-ish, mostly we were between the domes, but made a foray down to the dihedral as it is quite obvious. Started late in the day but did not finish, Jay may have gone back later but we just went down to take a look. Generally Jay did not spend too much time down there as Calaveras was close and quite a bit bigger. That's about all I know. Nice place really I thought, easy to get to with a lot of opportunity. We never placed any bolts, pins dropped behind flakes, nuts etc....We never gave anything any names just wanted to get away from the crowds a bit so this was just for fun...We put up like 10-ish climbs but mainly we were just scoping the place out.
Cool!!!
I climbed that corner last year and found bail slings about half way up. Nothing higher was found. We had to place rappel anchors to retreat so doubt he ever made it back up there. We pushed the line another pitch (.10r) with at least one more stretcher to the top yet to do.
Someone was out there placing bolts way back when as I have found several lines with some pretty crusty bolts on them. The line in your photos has about 5 bolts on it that look to be about the oldest line I've found so far. You sure ya'll didn't place any bolts? That line is pretty protectionless and hard for about 160ft.
Nope, I take that back. I found a crack system with a square machine nut bashed in tight. There was an old ratty piece of three strand nylon rope through it wedged back in the crack. That may pre date any Leepers.
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dustonian
climber
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He wants consensus, so I guess it's worth giving an opinion. Mine is please stop bolting over existing routes and rap-bolting at old crags with decades-long traditions of ground-up first ascents. What you are doing is pretty shameful in my book and belongs off in the woods, alone, on some lesser pile than historical Sugarloaf. Have the decency to chop your own ignominies before your reputation is sealed for good. If you're going ground-up on new terrain at the Loaf then the bolts are fine, otherwise...
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213
climber
Where the Froude number often >> 1
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Whether you keep the routes in question or restore the old, telling others to skip the bolts is never the real answer, it's just a cutesy rationale for doing what you want to do.
"All climbing is anarchy and you can do as you please."
-Scott Backes
Of course, if you rap bolt, or squeeze, you will find opposition to your actions (case in point). Stop rap bolting, stop squeezing! Unless it is truly an honest independent and aesthetic line, leave it be. Plenty of rocks to probe out on in the range.
Either way, I guess we'll see Jebus, way up (and out) there, sans cord, in the best style, looking cutesy? :)
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213
climber
Where the Froude number often >> 1
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Hehe, well-said, mister Jebus.
Folks must stop pooping on the loaf!
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RattyJ
Trad climber
Pine Grove
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Wow, how cool to see those old photos of bear river domes. I've been climbing out there for several years now and could count the number of climbers I've seen on one hand. It's still the kind of place where when you see another group climbing, you go out of your way to meet them.
Theres alot of great routes in there. 800ft slab routes from 5.6 to 5.10+, a bunch of one and two pitch routes, slabs galore, cracks, a few offwidths. Most of the climbing is in the 5.6 to 5.9 range and almost everything goes on gear accept for the pure slab routes and the sport wall that Todd Offenbacher and crew grid bolted putting sport routes over old routes that went entirely on gear and bolting next to bomber cracks so they didn't have to carry in gear. Then getting all bent when their trash got cleaned up by the very people who climbed it before them. Other than that the place is a gem.
Sorry, I'm ranting.
I'm really supprised more people don't climb down in there. The swimming holes alone are worth a trip.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Would love to climb there if had any information on how to get there/what routes are where, or had a friend that knew the area. I am sure there are more people like me.
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Salamanizer
Trad climber
The land of Fruits & Nuts!
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Half the fun of climbing there is figuring out it's secrets on your own.
Have some adventurous spirit man. There is tons of obvious stuff that is climbable with only gear that goes at very moderate grades.
As for finding the place, Google it. There are access trails on either side of the canyon.
And....... GO!
Edited to add; Rob, let it go man. They have ceased their shenanigans. No need to be naming names, though they didn't extend that courtesy.
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Stewart Johnson
climber
lake forest
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dont go pissing down my back and tell me its raining.
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RattyJ
Trad climber
Pine Grove
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Yeah well if you're going to play the game you better have the sack to stand behind your actions publicly.
Salami, why always so vague? Whats wrong with giving everybody just a little info about the place to avoid wasting a day lost looking for a trail? You know more about the ins and outs of that place than anyone, hook it up mang.
Speaking of obscure areas, hows about a little info about eagle rock as well? You were supposed to hook me up with a topo a year ago. Perhaps these areas deserve their own threads to get more people out there to enjoy them?
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