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TFPU
Sport climber
Idaho
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Jan 11, 2012 - 08:32pm PT
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What blows me away is how often you demonstrate your idiocy
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2012 - 11:42pm PT
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What did Glen Beck say this time?
I wouldn't know.
So you have know idea what powers were overstepped in this past week?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2012 - 11:47pm PT
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More Wave-Rider....(weird camera slant)
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scaredycat
Trad climber
Berkeley,CA
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Jan 12, 2012 - 12:19am PT
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apogee
climber
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Jan 12, 2012 - 01:38am PT
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"...my grand kids could walk up that slab!!"
Republican climbers....pfft.
Might as well play golf.
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apogee
climber
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Jan 12, 2012 - 01:59am PT
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stinkbuggin'
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jan 12, 2012 - 02:52am PT
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However, it is the direct responsibility of the FED to protect the country from foes both foreign and domestic.
If they were really serious about that you'd be on the first flight to gitmo...
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Degaine
climber
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Jan 12, 2012 - 05:28am PT
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Bluering wrote:
It really blows me away what this administration gets away with. Both legally and from the media.
Why aren't members of Congress (other than Darell Issa) investigating the obvious power-grabs by these communists who make the Patriot Act actually look patriotic????
Are the Repubs in on this too?? We are screwed....
This post is officially on-topic, carry on...
I’m really blown away by how ignorant and partisan the above statement and your original post are.
The recently passed bill is simply a continuation, or rather a formalization, of what has been going on since the Patriot Act was passed.
Where were you when the Patriot Act was passed? Where were you when Bush and Co were making serious executive branch power grabs? Where were you when the FISA laws were violated?
Not a peep from you and your ilk from Jan/2001 to Jan/2009. Not a complaint with regard to Ashcroft, Gonzales, etc.
But all of a sudden a Democrat is in the White House and you blame this power grab and annihilation of our rights as defined by the US Constitution on the left. As if this came about all of a sudden.
What surprises me even more is that Obama is clearly governing from the center right, whether it be with regard to domestic policy, or especially with regard to foreign policy, yet you and everyone right of center on Supertopo continue to complain. He has continued most if not all of Bush’s policies – you should have breathed a sigh of relief at some point when it became clear that Obama has reneged on all of his campaign promises. He's GW Bush N°2 only he's softened the edges with regard to discourse and relationships with other countries.
Are you really that blind of a partisan that the simple “Democrat” label sends you into a frenzy?
I personally think that Obama has been a subpar, bordering on horrible president, and I have written as much many, many times. So while yes, I’m far to the left, I am not the partisan hack, lock step fool that you are clearly demonstrating yourself to be.
However, the silver lining is that if this policy really bothers you so much then you are indirectly admitting that GW Bush’s policies and presidency were a disaster with regard to our rights.
Are you ready to go on record on Supertopo and admit that you were 100% wrong about Bush?
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Jan 12, 2012 - 10:11am PT
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We don't even qualify as liberals anymore.
We are now...{*shudder*}...PROGRESSIVES!!
How the hell did they turn progressive into a dirty word?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 12, 2012 - 07:34pm PT
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He has continued most if not all of Bush’s policies – you should have breathed a sigh of relief at some point when it became clear that Obama has reneged on all of his campaign promises. He's GW Bush N°2 only he's softened the edges with regard to discourse and relationships with other countries.
Are you really that blind of a partisan that the simple “Democrat” label sends you into a frenzy?
One of the few things I do like about Obama is his compounding of the Drone runs in Eastern Afghanistan and Pakistan.
I personally think that Obama has been a subpar, bordering on horrible president, and I have written as much many, many times. So while yes, I’m far to the left, I am not the partisan hack, lock step fool that you are clearly demonstrating yourself to be.
However, the silver lining is that if this policy really bothers you so much then you are indirectly admitting that GW Bush’s policies and presidency were a disaster with regard to our rights.
Are you ready to go on record on Supertopo and admit that you were 100% wrong about Bush?
No. Maybe 25%-40%.
I guess a question to you would be why you're not so vocal about Obama's power-grabs.
EDIT: Dr.F, the second Wave Rider pic has the camera tilted, making the route look less steep than it actually is.
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laughingman
Mountain climber
Seattle WA
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Jan 12, 2012 - 11:11pm PT
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Here is the question I have wanted to throw out for awhile now...
Liberty vs order?
Was Thomas Hobbes right? (to some degree). Is rule by a harsh tyranny preferable to the chaos of struggling for survival under no government at all?
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Degaine
climber
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Jan 13, 2012 - 02:37am PT
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bluering wrote:
I guess a question to you would be why you're not so vocal about Obama's power-grabs.
I have been. I've been vocal in here about executive branch power grabs since GW Bush. I even pointed out that some day a Democrat would occupy the White House and that the right should think about the ramifications of the precedent the GW Bush White House was setting with regard to power grabs and the executive branch going way beyond the powers given to it by the US Constitution.
All I can write is, you (the rightwing / Republicans) made your bed now f*#king sleep in it.
I've also been highly critical of Obama. My post count is not as high as yours (or many in here) so I can honestly understand that you missed most or all of my posts (hey, this is the Internet). However, to accuse me of not being critical of Obama or vocal (in my own way, I'm not into ad hominem attacks or frothing at the mouth) is just insulting and intellectually dishonest. Do a little research before you make that type of claim, otherwise just don't make claims that you can not back up.
The better question is why not a peep from you regarding the Patriot Act - now 10 years old - and its subsequent renewals?
Hey, I suppose you could claim "better late than never," right? But why are you now all of a sudden appalled when this started 10 years ago?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 13, 2012 - 07:50pm PT
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However, to accuse me of not being critical of Obama or vocal (in my own way, I'm not into ad hominem attacks or frothing at the mouth) is just insulting and intellectually dishonest.
I've never heard your dissents.
Do a little research before you make that type of claim, otherwise just don't make claims that you can not back up.
That is a little unreasonable. Gimme a break...If someone makes a claim on a blog that I feel is disengenuous, I have to do a background check before I can respond??
The better question is why not a peep from you regarding the Patriot Act - now 10 years old - and its subsequent renewals?
Hey, I suppose you could claim "better late than never," right? But why are you now all of a sudden appalled when this started 10 years ago?
Well, I was kinda willing to support it because it appeared as though it was going to be temporary, "until we rooted out the evil-doers" aka Islamic terrorists.
It just seems as though they are turning this thing against people who non-violently dissent against the gov't. The wording of the new bill allows the gov't to determine the threat and prosecute U.S. citizens without due-process rights. This is a problem.
And it seems to be aimed at right-wingers. Just look at the lack of legal enforcement againt the Occupy Dipshits. They have officially interfered with commerce at ports, actually requiring the Coast Guard to defend ships loading grain.
Why no action against them???
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Binks
climber
Uranus
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Jan 14, 2012 - 01:42am PT
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or maybe Blue... it's all just a bunch of distracting bullsh#t... Maybe if you just ignore all this ideological crap none of it will amount to a hill of beans in the course of your lifetime. You could laugh your ass off at all the f*#kers who thought it did...
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Matt
Trad climber
it's all turtles, all the way dooowwwwwnn!!!!!
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Jan 14, 2012 - 02:21am PT
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Why no action against them???
because there is a long history of nonviolent civil disobedience in this country- oh you know- ever heard of the uh.... TEA PARTY???
also- the occupy protesters have shown that if you come in hot they will bounce back stronger- how are you gonna deal with that? it's a true grass roots event, driven by citizens who are not out for a flashy moment in the sun, but driven to reclaim their government from all of the corporate money in the system- good luck with your "action" against them!
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slayton
Trad climber
Here and There
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Jan 14, 2012 - 03:59am PT
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The wording of the new bill allows the gov't to determine the threat and prosecute U.S. citizens without due-process rights. This is a problem.
With the exception of the U.S. citizens part (and almost certainly even beyond that) how is it in our best interest to prosecute ANYONE without due process? Hell, the powers that be here in the US have even twisted the words of international law so that those persons taken in the "War on Terror" aren't recognized as soldiers afforded the rights of the Geneva Convention neither are they afforded the rights of any citizen. They are unlawful "enemy combatants" and can be taken and held without "due process" or any kind of process at at all for any length of time deemed necessary by those that hold them.
This was a problem when it started under Bush and it's a problem now when it's continued under Obama. Once the Executive branch gets a taste for new power it is loathe to give it up, be it Republican or Democrat or Whatever. What happened to the idea of "inalienable rights" or "all men are created equally"?? I was taught and always thought that these were the basic tenets that this country was founded upon. But now these basic precepts seem like nothing more than a matter of convenience in "The War on Terror", the great boogeyman.
Right now, RIGHT NOW, there are no inalienable rights and all men are not created equal. Right now, your husband, wife, brother, sister, mother or father could be picked up and detained by the government for no other reason than the government thought that they should be. No due process. No lawyers. No telephone calls. No letting loved ones know where you're at or that you've been detained. Nothing. Welcome to the new America (as it proceeds down this path).
It's a brand new world but it hasn't changed so much and man's capacity for bullshit hasn't changed so much that the Founding Fathers didn't see the possibility of tyranny. There is a reason for the checks and balances written into the Constitution. Those balances are being swayed right now.
The slippery slope has started to be descended and inertia is a bitch. Time will tell if the American political process can bring balance back to the equation. But Bluering, it is FAR beyond what you portray as being "Obama did this or that!!" or "Democrats!!" or even "Republicans!!!". This is beyond political dogma so open your eyes and stop pandering to one side or the other. This is an American (USA) problem.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Jan 14, 2012 - 08:04am PT
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Blew look out there are Commies in your closet.
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Jan 14, 2012 - 11:22am PT
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Holy shite this pile hasn't been deleted yet?
Bush was a joke too.
You could'a saved us all a lot of time by reducing the size of the OP to this statement… No need for all that explanation…. that musta made your head hurt…
Good war staff, just spent like a drunk Democrat while appointing more Goldman Sachs chumps o rule over our currency, and as a result, our economy.
 well… except that he was a drunken republican…
Don't forget…
Get a job
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 14, 2012 - 12:24pm PT
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because there is a long history of nonviolent civil disobedience in this country- oh you know- ever heard of the uh.... TEA PARTY???
also- the occupy protesters have shown that if you come in hot they will bounce back stronger- how are you gonna deal with that? it's a true grass roots event, driven by citizens who are not out for a flashy moment in the sun, but driven to reclaim their government from all of the corporate money in the system- good luck with your "action" against them!
Matt, even you can recognize the difference between the Tea Party events and the OWS commies, can't ya?
The cops were never needed at TP events, the place was clean when they left, and they abided by LOCAL LAWS AND ORDINENCES.
Philo, I check the closets every night....
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Degaine
climber
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Jan 14, 2012 - 05:03pm PT
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bluering wrote:
However, to accuse me of not being critical of Obama or vocal (in my own way, I'm not into ad hominem attacks or frothing at the mouth) is just insulting and intellectually dishonest.
I've never heard your dissents.
Like I wrote, that’s fine, it’s the Internet, so no biggie, I don’t read every post in detail of every poster in every thread.
But you should have just stopped there...
bluering wrote :
Do a little research before you make that type of claim, otherwise just don't make claims that you can not back up.
That is a little unreasonable. Gimme a break...If someone makes a claim on a blog that I feel is disengenuous, I have to do a background check before I can respond??
Given how unreasonable your accusation, yes, you should have done a little research. But it’s much easier for you to falsely accuse me of something to then shoot down so it will fit your world view.
What bothers you more, that we share the same view with regard to this bill, or that you’re ten years late to the party?
In any case, I have not been disingenuous. If you’re too embarrassed to make a public apology, feel free to send it to me via pm/email.
bluering wrote :
Well, I was kinda willing to support it because it appeared as though it was going to be temporary, "until we rooted out the evil-doers" aka Islamic terrorists.
It just seems as though they are turning this thing against people who non-violently dissent against the gov't. The wording of the new bill allows the gov't to determine the threat and prosecute U.S. citizens without due-process rights. This is a problem.
And it seems to be aimed at right-wingers.
You do realize that sunset clauses of the Patriot Act were supposed to take effect in 2005, and that the Patriot act was renewed by a Republican administration with a Republican majority in both houses of Congress, don’t you?
In addition, regarding the recent defense bill in question, 42 of 47 Senate Republicans voted for it, and 187 of 242 House Republicans voted for it, which blows out of the water your bull-shit claim that the bill is aimed at the right wing.
Are you really that partisan or just unbelievably unaware of what has been going since January 2001 with regard to the squashing of rights of American citizens in the supposed name of security?
This is just the continuation of a 10 year old trend. Not a peep from you (or anyone on the right for that matter) when Bush violated FISA and domestic wiretapping laws. Why do you now act so surprised? The recent defense bill was easily foreseeable (and was predicted by Karl Baba, myself, and many others) and the clear next step of the trend that has gone unopposed since 2001.
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