Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
|
|
|
Nov 20, 2011 - 08:53pm PT
|
Skip....And your choice for president would have done a better job than Obama...? McCain -Palin i am assuming..? They lost the election by a landslide because America was fed up with the Cheney Bush dog and pony show and now you are proposing more of the same republican policies..? RJ
|
|
PAUL SOUZA
Trad climber
Central Valley, CA
|
|
|
Nov 20, 2011 - 09:56pm PT
|
Heroes or people that should have gotten a job?
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
|
Nov 20, 2011 - 10:07pm PT
|
Skip writes
You said we should all vote for the current clown in office. You said he
would fix all this. He didn't. You were wrong. Admit it.
I never said he'd fix anything, just that he was a better choice than the other fool.
Both parties are bought and paid for by big business and big money. That's why OWS is important. Until this equation changes, government and big money are the same thing. THey just try to pacify their base with lies and token laws about gay marriage or union rights cause they can only rig the vote so far.
peace
Karl
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
|
Nov 20, 2011 - 10:11pm PT
|
Anybody posted this yet?
What do you think? Are corporations REALLY people and do they have first ammendment rights to use huge money to get their way?
http://thinkprogress.org/special/2011/11/18/372361/rep-deutch-introduces-occupied-constitutional-amendment-to-ban-corporate-money-in-politics/
In one of the greatest signs yet that the 99 Percenters are having an impact, Rep. Ted Deutch (D-FL), a member of the House Judiciary Committee, today introduced an amendment that would ban corporate money in politics and end corporate personhood once and for all.
Deutch’s amendment, called the Outlawing Corporate Cash Undermining the Public Interest in our Elections and Democracy (OCCUPIED) Amendment, would overturn the Citizens United decision, re-establishing the right of Congress and the states to regulate campaign finance laws, and to effectively outlaw the ability of for-profit corporations to contribute to campaign spending.
“No matter how long protesters camp out across America, big banks will continue to pour money into shadow groups promoting candidates more likely to slash Medicaid for poor children than help families facing foreclosure,” said Deutch in a statement provided to ThinkProgress. “No matter how strongly Ohio families fight for basic fairness for workers, the Koch Brothers will continue to pour millions into campaigns aimed at protecting the wealthiest 1%. No matter how fed up seniors in South Florida are with an agenda that puts oil subsidies ahead of Social Security and Medicare, corporations will continue to fund massive publicity campaigns and malicious attack ads against the public interest. Americans of all stripes agree that for far too long,
corporations have occupied Washington and drowned out the voices of the people. I introduced the OCCUPIED Amendment because the days of corporate control of our democracy. It is time to return the nation’s capital and our democracy to the people.”
This is what OWS inspired and can rally behind
Peace
Karl
|
|
tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
|
|
|
Nov 20, 2011 - 10:12pm PT
|
The problem I see with this is that you need a large difference between the bad guys (dictators of syria, lybia, Iran, Iraq, etc) and the good guys to justify going to war.
If you keep taking so many steps in their direction it will be even harder to convince everyone that the bad guys are different, or bad, so you should go to war. You might have to make reasons up, like WMD or something.
|
|
PAUL SOUZA
Trad climber
Central Valley, CA
|
|
|
Nov 20, 2011 - 10:28pm PT
|
What does war have to do with this?
|
|
Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
|
|
|
Nov 20, 2011 - 10:34pm PT
|
nothing
|
|
tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
|
|
|
Nov 20, 2011 - 10:34pm PT
|
The justification and stories you use for getting public on your side for war has always been stories of how bad the dictator is that you are trying to remove. (after putting him there)
When you start taking steps toward treating your own people violently for non-violent protests you start to make your reasons for war weak.
That's what it has to do with this. Watch the changes over the next 4-5 years and compare to how 'the land of the free' used to be. But like a boiling frog, you can't notice the changes if you watch the news every day.
|
|
climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
|
|
|
Nov 20, 2011 - 10:47pm PT
|
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Best post in the whole thread
|
|
PAUL SOUZA
Trad climber
Central Valley, CA
|
|
|
Nov 20, 2011 - 10:57pm PT
|
Okay Tooth, I think I got what you're saying. I'll share my perspective, which I think is the same.
Essentially, our government knows they're a bunch of crooks. So they project all their sh#t onto someone else and label that person as the "axis of evil." And then all the citizens of this country mindlessly follow. They don't even realize that their very own freedoms and liberties are being slowly eroded.
I think this best illustrates what I mean...
|
|
apogee
climber
|
|
|
Nov 21, 2011 - 12:50am PT
|
"In one of the greatest signs yet that the 99 Percenters are having an impact, Rep. Ted Deutch (D-FL), a member of the House Judiciary Committee, today introduced an amendment that would ban corporate money in politics and end corporate personhood once and for all.
Deutch’s amendment, called the Outlawing Corporate Cash Undermining the Public Interest in our Elections and Democracy (OCCUPIED) Amendment, would overturn the Citizens United decision, re-establishing the right of Congress and the states to regulate campaign finance laws, and to effectively outlaw the ability of for-profit corporations to contribute to campaign spending."
It's gonna take a helluva lot more than a cutely-named straw-amendment like that to convince me the OWS movement is making a dent in our corporate culture. Believe-you-me, I'd like to see the whole corporations-are-people concept go up in a Burning Man of flames, but this movement doesn't seem anywhere near that kind of tectonic movement.
This amendment looks like simple politics- a Florida Dem taking advantage of a trendy issue and trying to show his constituents that he's doing something in their interests, but knows full-well that it doesn't have a hope in hell.
That sounds pretty negative. I wish it luck.
|
|
Degaine
climber
|
|
|
Nov 21, 2011 - 02:21am PT
|
Kevmn wrote:
Point is, they were being disruptive to students and were asked to relocate.
That’s the whole point, to disrupt. Going out to an empty field near the primate research center would “miss the point” as you put it.
To get people’s attention peaceful protests are always disruptive.
Plus, you’re being disingenuous, the protestors brutalized by the police were at the quad: 1) an area specifically designed for students to congregate – that’s its purpose, and 2) occupying the quad, while highly visible to those on campus, hardly disrupts getting to class.
Kevmn wrote:
Instead of peacefully moving, they chose to provoke confrontation and incite violence then claim victimization.
It’s called civil disobedience
In addition, those sprayed and brutalized by police did not do anything, they just sat there. The only provocation was exercising their first amendment rights to free speech.
|
|
Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
|
|
|
Nov 21, 2011 - 03:17am PT
|
that cop is gonna be sittin with the protesters in about 2 weeks.
|
|
Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
|
|
|
Nov 21, 2011 - 03:29am PT
|
disrupting students, who are not protesting for fear of being deported,
"More than 560 students from the People's Republic of China now attend the University of California, Davis; 225 of them are freshmen paying nonresident tuition of $38,001 apiece – $22,878 more than the $15,123 a year for California residents.
They reflect China's new middle class, increased competition for slots at China's top universities and the growing interconnectedness between the two superpowers.
The globalization of the University of California, Davis, flows from Chancellor Linda Katehi's plan to add 5,000 more undergraduates – both California residents and nonresidents – by 2020.
The expansion of foreign students paying top dollar will provide millions in new revenue, stave off further cuts and help the university hire 300 new professors.
This fall UC Davis enrolled 1,662 foreign students, 720 of them undergraduates, generating about $16.5 million in nonresident tuition. They include 181 South Koreans, 121 from Hong Kong and 101 Taiwanese.
It's a trend playing out across the UC system and at colleges nationwide. In 2010, there were 671,616 foreign students studying at American universities. Students from China were the biggest group at 127,628, a 30 percent rise over 2009, according to the Institute of International Education.
|
|
rockermike
Trad climber
Berkeley
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 21, 2011 - 10:31am PT
|
I went to a pre-thanksgiving diner last night at a friend's house in Davis near campus. My friend lets out rooms to students and as a result has picked up a huge following of young student acquaintances over the years (my friend is in her mid 70's). So 20 or 25 hungry college students show up for a free dinner - ha ha. At least 6 of them where part of the Occupy movement and on the scene when the spray-in-your-face sh#t came down. (by the way - one young girl ended up in the emergency room with a severe reaction to the pepper spray and consequent asthma attack). They were some of the nicest kids I've ever met. Young, intelligent, graceful (and I might say - in some cases - head turning beautiful). Gives one hopes for the future generation. It seems its always the best and the brightest that stick their necks out for justice.
|
|
Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
|
|
|
Nov 21, 2011 - 11:28am PT
|
Nice kids, but they aren't very bright.
When the cops give you warning that they are going to use force if you stick around, only a fool would stay.
|
|
Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
|
|
|
Nov 21, 2011 - 11:37am PT
|
When the cops give you warning that they are going to use force if you stick around, only a fool would stay.
|
|
Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
|
|
|
Nov 21, 2011 - 11:46am PT
|
They sat there, and let the cops spray them, when they simply could have just left.
Seems pretty stupid to me.
BTW, they're not using pepper spray in Egypt. They're shooting 7.62 x 39mm Kalashnikov rounds at people.
|
|
couchmaster
climber
pdx
|
|
|
Nov 21, 2011 - 11:51am PT
|
So was Kevnm (post copied below) the only one of you who were there and witnessed this? He saw it, isn't pissed off. In fact, he makes it sound like the police were very restrained and fair. He was there. Who else was there, and not actually guessing what was done from an out of context video clip or media spin who can confirm or deny Kennm here?
Nov 20, 2011 - 10:42am PT
Wow, I figured climbers would have a better sense too see through all the media fact twisting and moulding of events to suit a particular agenda.
I read through all that crap and that's not what happened. These media sources are playing you sparking your anger and outrage. Free speech is a wonderful thing and needs to be protected and exercised or course. But what these news sources are doing is not free speech. They are purposefully manipulating the truth and reporting on false "facts" to push people in a certain direction.
As a credible news source, they should have to check their sources with "facts" that can be backed up. The media needs to be held accountable for running false information like this.
Here's the facts as I was present for much of this ridiculousness and some friends of mine were so close to the action, they caught a little pepper in the breeze.
These protesters were asked to remove their little shanty tent town three days prior to this incident. They had THREE days to comply. They were not asked to stop protesting. Only to relocate their protests to a more appropriate area where another large group was already set up. Where they were was an area that was highly disruptive to students.
Most of the Davis students packed up and left but some protesters (sitters) from outside the campus decided they would come in and resist.
The campus police showed up and asked the group to disperse and remove the tent city or they would be forced to do so. The police talked to the protesters and tried to persuade them to move peacefully. Officials from the school who support their cause came out and asked that they relocate peacefully. Protest organizers even suggested that it would be best if they moved. This all went on for three hours at a great expense to the already financially strapped school.
A dozen or so students had packed up and left but a group of mostly non students intent on resisting any authority for any reason locked arms and sat there shouting at the campus police.
This went on for hours while the police pleaded for them to just move. At one point I saw several officers trying to physically break up the group by prying their arms apart. The protesters were spitting kicking and elbowing the police in defiance. I saw this with my own eyes.
Instead of beating the sh#t out of them with batons to break them up, the police backed off and spent another hour deciding what they were going to do. At that point I got bored and left but apparently what happened was the police got permission to deploy pepper spray in an attempt to avoid physically breaking up the group.
Now remember, these protesters "were" breaking the law because they were on private property and asked to relocate. Several of the protesters were also guilty of battery on an officer for spitting and kicking the officers.
The police once again pleaded with the protesters and told them what they were about to do. They gave them ten minutes to reconsider. At that point the officers pushed the crowd back to a safe distance, pleaded once again then gave them several quick, light blasts of pepper. They did not hose them down as one report stated.
Shortly after the pepper was deployed, the group peacefully broke up. Police ushered them over to an area they had set up where they had wash stations with running water, towels and medical personnel on hand.
That's exactly what happened, no bullsh#t, no buttering the facts.
Now tell me, what the hell were the police supposed to do?
They were disrupting students in class, blocking walkways and needed to be removed.
Most of the students I saw were pretty upset with this particular group, and almost everyone is an occupy supporter.
What should the police have done and still be able to maintain order?
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!