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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Apr 18, 2011 - 02:40pm PT
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I've worked as a periodic project evaluator for a Swiss aid project in Nepal for many years, and can say that the problems 60 Minutes uncovered on the ground in Pakistan are typical for that part of the world. Nepal is full of nicely built and totally empty school houses and health clinics because there is no staff for them. Trained and educated people are at a premium in that part of the world and are soon lured to something more comfortable and lucrative than a village outpost.
Corruption is rampant and expected. Previous comments about a lot of Mortenson's funds going to bribes which he can't acknowledge rings true to me. Paying the elites of a poor country for the privilege of helping their poor is one of the more galling aspects of aid work at all levels. Theft and corruption at the village level are also rampant, as well as petty rivalries and jealous vindictiveness, along with deliberate sabotage.
I spent as much as half of my time trying to moderate local level feuds and find out the real reasons a project was not working. What frequently appeared to be a technical problems on the surface of a project were almost always upon investigation, social problems and political failures. If all this is true of a peaceful country like Nepal and a non violent religion like Hinduism, how much more so in a country like Pakistan with a different tradition?
I have a lot of sympathy for the argument that Mortensen was holding back money to build an endowment to try to pay for the long term management of his projects. I can also believe that if an outside overseer was not on hand to supervise the money, a lot of it disappeared and the success of many projects was faked. As for the finances of his organization in the U.S., I imagine the IRS will sort that out.
Meanwhile, Krakauer should be happy that the Sherpas he worked with on Everest aren't talking to 60 Minutes about how they were misrepresented, especially Lobsang Jangbu, who is no longer alive to defend himself.
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JerryA
Mountain climber
Sacramento,CA
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Apr 18, 2011 - 02:43pm PT
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NO GOOD DEED GOES UNPUNISHED !
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10b4me
Ice climber
Happy Boulders
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Apr 18, 2011 - 02:45pm PT
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I read Three Cups of Tea. I found it to be a tad boring.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Apr 18, 2011 - 02:56pm PT
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Hi Jan,
can you explain the "kidnapping"?
The private jet?
The lack of open response?
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 18, 2011 - 03:12pm PT
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Yeah Jan
Most of these "google knowledge" wankers here have never dealt with the real third world.
I remember half our crew got kidnapped and held hostage for some bullshit ransom by the corrupt govt. in Columbia trying to extort money out of them because we were an American film crew.
Then in Africa they came out in a boat in the Niger river trying the same spiel there.
In Borneo our helicopters split in the middle of night for political reasons between the president of Indonesia and the military.
Some total bullshit crap that was just some personal feud between them.
Luckily we had the proper people around us to deal with these type assho'les.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Apr 18, 2011 - 03:50pm PT
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The amount of invective and condemnation from many on this site who know absolutely nothing about the underlying issues, non-profits, the vagaries of third world countries, fund raising, etc., is pretty staggering.
The guy builds schools for kids that never had them in countries that no one ever gave two farts about (except the Soviets and Alexander the Great) until he wrote about it. Despite this very obvious and undisputed fact, everyone is so quick to condemn, so unwilling to forgive.
Why don't some of you blowhards actually perform a bit more research than watching 12 minutes of "60 Minutes" which, to be frank, is entertainment, not journalism. Maybe then you could do something more productive with that info that just slam people on this site.
As Alexander Pope wrote long ago: "A little learning is a dangerous thing."
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atchafalaya
Boulder climber
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Apr 18, 2011 - 03:53pm PT
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"The amount of invective and condemnation from many on this site who know absolutely nothing... is pretty staggering."
First time on Supertopo?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Apr 18, 2011 - 04:00pm PT
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The amount of invective and condemnation from many on this site who know absolutely nothing about the underlying issues, non-profits, the vagaries of third world countries, fund raising, etc., is pretty staggering.
I hear ya. The dude didn't appear to ponzi-scheme the operation from what I can tell. He really meant well, IMO.
But fame, book-publicists, and money really took over his soul. This is why I really like my place in life. Fame and money would kill me...
He had a good soul, I think. He was led astray, and didn't have the awareness to realize the reality of what was happening.
He did more good to the world than bad. Can you say that for yourself?
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Apr 18, 2011 - 04:04pm PT
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What's that line from Lawrence of Arabia, someone making an observation about T.E. Lawrence (who was there for things he believed in), that he was "riding the whirlwind."
I suspect Mortenson may be in a similar situation. He's so busy doing what's he doing, he just hasn't stopped to be a bookkeeper. But that's forgiveable to me. The reason he's able to do what he does is because he's not a bookkeeper.
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ydpl8s
Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
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Apr 18, 2011 - 04:12pm PT
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I think that Jan and Werner hit the nail on the head. Unless you've worked in 3rd world countries, you have no idea how ridiculous it is to hold projects to "western" standards and business practices. I worked extensively in South America and Africa, "showing your appreciation" to the locals was the only way you even had chance of having your project have a chance of coming to fruition.
For damn sure, don't lose your temper, yell at someone and make them lose "face", pushing your entitled Western Weight around. That's when stuff just comes up missing and the only answers to your inquiries about it are shrugged shoulders.
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Maysho
climber
Soda Springs, CA
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Apr 18, 2011 - 04:14pm PT
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I am not seeing anything like corruption. I read the CAI Board response to the questions, and they made sense to me.
I think many here are forgetting the bottom line. This dis-organized, socially awkward, sort of bumbly climber dude, got an inspiration to help some people who needed it, did it, scrapped with very little money for some years, wrote and published a very inspiring story, and now can raise millions of bucks for his cause. Most importantly he has sparked a needed national and international conversation about how to help in the third world.
So his speaking schedule sometimes is helped by chartering a jet, who cares, through speaking he raises $60 million bucks for the CAI! He could be way more lavish with travel and get paid way more, and he would still be a very efficient fundraiser, and the cause is a great one, not only that, the way his books and his speaking tours make people think about alternatives to the futile militaristic approach to the region is worth a lot IMHO.
It has been awhile since I read the book, but as I recall, his description of the kidnapping was of a somewhat soft but undoubtedly scary detainment by some potentially hard core Islam-ists who needed to check him out. Not incompatible with someone 16 years later saying "he was our guest".
Sounds like many schools have been built, and I am sure there are some that haven't worked out, but many that have.
I hope the result of all of this is that Greg tightens up his act, gets the help of a seasoned manager, CAI strengthens their board oversight and financial systems, and they move on and kick ass with building more schools, training and retaining teachers, and hopefully helping to foster more local/indigenous talent to carry on this worthy mission.
I say Go CAI!, Go Greg Mortenson!
Peter
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Captain...or Skully
climber
My ready room
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Apr 18, 2011 - 04:15pm PT
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Word, Peter. Always good to have perspective, huh?
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Apr 18, 2011 - 04:19pm PT
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Why do the difficulties of operating in a third world country excuse a lack of honesty here in this country? Mortenson had already admitted that parts of his books were fictionalized--this cannot be excused by how difficult Pakistan is. Also, if the number of schools built have been inflated, how can this be blamed on how things are in Pakistan?
It's Mortenson's book so he is entitled to all of its profits. Also, he is entitled to all the speaking fees. But did his audience know that, and would they have supported him as much if they knew? Also, why is the non-profit paying to support the book and the book-tours when they are a for-profit enterprise for Mortenson?
Also, Krakauer is quoted as an early fan of Mortenson (gave him $75,000) that got disillusioned after hearing complaints from directors and officers in Mortenson's organization. But many of the worst allegations are made by others. So there are still serious allegations, even if you discount what Krakauer says completely.
Finally, NO ONE is disputing that Mortenson has done a lot of good, even if he not been completely honest and even if he has used his organization for his own personal financial gain more than he should.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Apr 18, 2011 - 04:21pm PT
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This dis-organized, socially awkward, sort of bumbly climber dude
That is how I pictured him in my mind, and maybe that used to describe him. But look at the videos of him--if that ever described him, he looks completely different now.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Apr 18, 2011 - 04:22pm PT
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I think many here are forgetting the bottom line. This dis-organized, socially awkward, sort of bumbly climber dude, got an inspiration to help some people who needed it, did it, scrapped with very little money for some years, wrote and published a very inspiring story, and now can raise millions of bucks for his cause. Most importantly he has sparked a needed national and international conversation about how to help in the third world.
So his speaking schedule sometimes is helped by chartering a jet, who cares, through speaking he raises $60 million bucks for the CAI! He could be way more lavish with travel and get paid way more, and he would still be a very efficient fundraiser, and the cause is a great one, not only that, the way his books and his speaking tours make people think about alternatives to the futile militaristic approach to the region is worth a lot IMHO.
Well said, Peter. Look at organizations like the U.N., Human Rights Watch, Amnesty Int'l, before you criticize his work.
I think he's just a naive man, abused by media-whores and publicists. I could be wrong.
Another thing that came to mind was the incessant bombing of girl schools by Islamists throwbacks. Does Greg know this? He must. For every 3 he builds, 2 are destroyed. One survives though, so that is, by definition, progress.
What a f*#ked up world we delve in. Cheers! and Rock on!!!!!
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Dolomite
climber
Anchorage
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Apr 18, 2011 - 04:25pm PT
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Time will tell. 60 Minutes knows the libel laws better than I do; they wouldn't go to press unless their attorneys gave them the green light.
I sincerely hope that he is able to stay out of prison and continue his good works.
That said, I found the concept of 1.7 million to promote a book a very creepy statistic. I understand that the book is an important fund-raising tool, symbiotically connected to the solicitation of funds that support the continued marketing of the book, that solicits etc . . .
But, (without researching it, of course, like the lazy naysayer I am) that amount of money in promotion has to be the single largest amount of cash ever spent on book promotion. Which makes me wonder: what would have happened to the book without all that promotion?
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Port
Trad climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 18, 2011 - 04:25pm PT
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Why do the difficulties of operating in a third world country excuse a lack of honesty here in this country?
Exactly. Why not just be honest? People would be forgiving if he were just forthright. I'm not buying the argument "you're not qualified to pass judgement unless you've been there." The difficulties of regional management have nothing to do with chartering private jets to fly around the U.S.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Apr 18, 2011 - 04:32pm PT
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If Americans could understand honesty, plastic tits wouldn't exist.
You just blew my mind!
You are more correct than you think...I think. Same logic.
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squish
Social climber
bc
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Apr 18, 2011 - 04:40pm PT
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link to pdf file at the bottom
story by JON KRAKAUER
Three Cups of Deceit
How Greg Mortenson,
Humanitarian Hero, Lost His Way
free today
http://byliner.com/
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Apr 18, 2011 - 04:40pm PT
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Helpful thoughts and perspectives from Jan and Peter.
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