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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Feb 24, 2011 - 07:22pm PT
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I'd like to see a "Q-ship" approach taken with a luxurious yacht crewed by about a dozen SEALS. Armed with weapons of their individual choice..
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Feb 24, 2011 - 07:29pm PT
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It's next to impossible to defend a commercial vessel from armed mercenaries, particularly if you want the cargo not to be damaged. They are very large, with small crews that don't have military or police training. The cost of effectively defending them internally would be very high. It is probably much cheaper to use convoys.
There are things that could be done to interdict certain areas, to make it difficult for armed vessels to go to and from the coast. A "sink on sight" warning, whereby all traffic must use defined corridors, and submit to inspection, or be sunk without warning. That would focus on a "pinch point". It wouldn't take long for word to get around, and although life may be cheap in Somalia, seagoing vessels aren't. In olden days, pirates were only put out of business by the advent of coal and then oil, as well as international registration of ships. The pirates had little access to fuel they needed. This would be a similar routine - in effect, redefine the rules of the game.
The prohibited zones could be in international waters, for those worried about such things.
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Brandon-
climber
Done With Tobacco
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Feb 24, 2011 - 07:30pm PT
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What about companion mercenary ships that stay out of port but accompany ships through cargo lanes?
One month on, one month off. The cargo vessels pick up supplies for their companion ship in port.
Viable?
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Feb 24, 2011 - 07:41pm PT
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It's next to impossible to defend a commercial vessel from armed mercenaries, particularly if you want the cargo not to be damaged. They are very large, with small crews that don't have military or police training. The cost of effectively defending them internally would be very high. It is probably much cheaper to use convoys.
Anders, it's easy to defend against this kind of threat and you don't arm crews, you hire mercs for onboard defense or armed escorts. Are there issues with that approach as Ron said? Sure, but it's the only cost-effective solution. I'm sure Xe would be happy to oblige and give them legitimate work for a change (even though they'll probably just hire Filipino and Indonesian pirates to do the job).
There are things that could be done to interdict certain areas, to make it difficult for armed vessels to go to and from the coast. A "sink on sight" warning, whereby all traffic must use defined corridors, and submit to inspection, or be sunk without warning. The zones could be in international waters.
Can't really police the Gulf of Aden or the open ocean east and south of the Horn that way - it's too big and the boats too small.
Subs (SSGNs) are way, way too expensive for the job and have other priorities in the region. That and you need a LOT of resources to cover the ground whereas a sub can only be in one place. And you don't really want a resource based out of Diego Garcia trying to police the Horn. It would be a symbolic gesture at best and taken as such; not unlike pigeons ignoring an owl decoy.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Feb 24, 2011 - 07:53pm PT
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The problem with mercs is that you'd need minimum 4 per ship. One guy sleeps/rests while the others patrol the deck 24/7, moving constantly in a circular pattern around the full perimeter of the deck.
Also use lights around the circumference of the hull to illuminate it. ANd obviously the mercs are armed with full-auto rifles with at least greande/rocket launcer. All carry sidearms.
Could get pricey, but beats paying a ransom. I wonder what the legal paramaters are for mercs actually destroying pirates at sea. Killing them.
U.N. would go nuts probably. And the usual other agitaters.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Feb 24, 2011 - 07:57pm PT
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U.N. would go nuts probably. And the usual other agitaters.
No, they wouldn't. Piracy on the high seas is just that. Hostages ashore is a different matter altogether.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Feb 24, 2011 - 08:03pm PT
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No, they wouldn't. Piracy on the high seas is just that. Hostages ashore is a different matter altogether.
Even if Xe (Blackwater) does it? C'mon!
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Feb 24, 2011 - 08:09pm PT
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If someone (retired military with good money contacts) was smart they would start a maritime version of Xe that would focus deliberately on this issue.
Could be a money-maker (Fatty???). You get to sail the world, shoot pirates, choice of weapons, free chow and modest accomodations. I can think of a quick handful here that would sign up.
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Gene
climber
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Feb 24, 2011 - 08:21pm PT
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20% of the world's shipping goes through that neighborhood. That’s huge. The folks getting pirated are overwhelmingly those who stray off the beaten path or refuse to participate in the “Group Transit” convoys provided by the EU and other navies patrolling the area. The fire power the patrols have makes Xe and the like seem like the Rambo-wannabe punks they are.
You get jacked on surface streets, not on the Interstate. The Maersk Alabama got jacked by ignoring international advisories to stay at least 600 miles off the coast of Somalia. The Alabama was about 250 miles off the coast when it was taken over.
Deny these guys the low hanging fruit and the problem is mostly solved.
g
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Feb 24, 2011 - 08:26pm PT
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The fire power the patrols have makes Xe and the like seem like the Rambo-wannabe punks they are.
But do they ever use it? They have to get permission to do anything probably. Too late then. The pirates are on the deck.
Better to use trigger-happy mercs.
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Gene
climber
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Feb 24, 2011 - 08:35pm PT
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Another relevant link: http://www.eunavfor.eu/
EDIT: Bluering,
Read closely.
20% of the world's shipping goes through the Gulf of Aden.
The pirates are holding 50 vessels from fishing boat to tankers.
Do the math.
It's working.
To date, four American mariners have been killed off Somalia.
If you don't drift over the yellow line, you'll probably be OK.
Pirates are bad.
Cheers,
Gene
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Feb 24, 2011 - 08:54pm PT
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jstan
climber
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Feb 24, 2011 - 08:55pm PT
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Check me on this folks.
Seems to me ever since the "World's Only Superpower" idiocy began we have been walking
around, as was common in the 18th century, hoping someone would slap us in the face with
their gloves thereby insulting us and making a duel or other violence possible. But we have
added the practice of, simply out of the blue, slapping ourselves with the gloves for the same
purpose.
If no one is willing to outrage us - we do it ourselves. We just love being outraged.
Logically, this should mean Army recruiters are presently having to beat volunteers off with sticks.
Strangely - no.
I'll say one word to the youngsters out there looking for a profession with a future. You don't have to reply.
Psychiatry.
Edit:
That gatling has to be gyro stabilized.
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FRUMY
Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
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Feb 24, 2011 - 09:03pm PT
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jstan - I think your right.
healyje nice pea shooters.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Feb 24, 2011 - 09:23pm PT
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Nicely put, John. Some even on SuperTopo have an astonishing ability to advocate that the US should act as not only world police, but impose its own image on the world. More exceptionalism, perhaps. But disregarding reality, the wishes of others, and the very real limitations on US might.
For example, those who are advocating on the other thread that the US "do something" about that awful Qaddafi character in Libya. Like drop bombs, that being about what the US could realistically do. Very hard to see how that would solve any problems. That one's messy, and no need to make it messier.
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Brandon-
climber
Done With Tobacco
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Feb 24, 2011 - 09:26pm PT
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Some folks like to embrace the imperialistic, world police thought.
I don't get it.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Feb 24, 2011 - 10:08pm PT
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Some folks like to embrace the imperialistic, world police thought.
I don't get it.
Of course you don't. You, like all other pacifiscts, think you can talk to terrorists and pirates, and things will be good.
You're deluded and don't understand evil and the criminal mind! They will kill you, idiot! Without a second thought. In fact, some will saw you scrawny neck off with a rusty knife with no regard for how much pain you feel.
You people are fools! Know your enemy. Know him well.
These people have nothing to lose in killing you. They think they achieve martydom by killing stupid Christians and whitey.
Idiots!
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Feb 24, 2011 - 10:14pm PT
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Bluering
Who is the enemy Now??
I would say its the right wing republican Congress, the SCOTUS, Governors, and Fox News
you on board to fight the enemy
You've officially confirmed my suspicions that you're crazy. The Supreme Court too, huh? Does that include all the libs on there now?
Will they be spared your vengeance, Dr. F?
You are a whack-job, dude.
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WBraun
climber
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Feb 24, 2011 - 10:24pm PT
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When I retire I wanna be a pirate in that sea.
Some shoe polish to the face and I'll be good a Somaili poser.
One big ship and I'll be able to retire.
DMT want's go too?
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