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Snorky
Trad climber
Carbondale, CO
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Jul 22, 2010 - 01:20pm PT
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I totally get it now, thanks cragman. i didn't realize fattrad was making an explanation, even after reading slowly. turns out whenever it rains, there was ultimately a 100% chance of rain that day.
while i'm here, is it ok if i go climbing Friday on the eastside? NOAA says there's a 10% chance of tstorms. can you tell me if it's the normal 10% or the different 10%? do you issue the permits or is there a website? Will I be fined if I get wet or scared? how many forecasts am i required to check? What if they are wrong? what would you do? is 10% in CA diferent than the 10% we use in CO? at least you can't say i didn't check with the weather master.
in my community, we are allowed to climb in any weather without facing a tribunal or expecting sympathy or rescue. Different rules in sunny CA? (off-route, raining?...call Cragman for a spanking).
even if there's a 100% chance of tstorms and avalanches and earthquakes, WHY DO YOU CARE if I go climbing in it? You are not involved. Am I not allowed to risk my own personal safety? I am pro-choice, you are pro-life. climbing is silly anyway.
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Snorky
Trad climber
Carbondale, CO
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Jul 22, 2010 - 01:34pm PT
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There was a time when climbers had to have balls/bravery.
They would trek for weeks into unknown, unmapped terrain. They would climb with no umbrella of weather data or rescue personnel. They would go beyond retreat and commit to an uncertain fate. And they did it all without the glory of spraying about it on ST.
I am not one of these people either. Collectively, what has happened to us?
Certainty neuters adventure. Absolute safety is a myth.
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Charlie D.
Trad climber
Western Slope, Tahoe Sierra
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Jul 22, 2010 - 01:51pm PT
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As the banter continues, I can't help but think in amusement of Winston Churchill's profound words; "There is nothing more exhilarating than being shot at and missed". If it were any other way would we really care to do it? You're all great, Berg Heil.
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Bertrand
climber
California
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 22, 2010 - 02:13pm PT
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Hi Snorky, I think I was in a pretty bad situation last Friday. And though I have been climbing all kinds of stuff for over ten years, my ability to climb full time has been limited by injury, career, and other projects. You guys are at it all the time, you live in the mountains, and I would be an idiot to not respect the wealth of insights available in this community. To make up for my weekend-warrior limitations, I work hard to draw every lesson out of every experience , I really do like to think about what could have been done better....it actually makes me climb more confidently.
I don't see this as a tribunal. Well, if it is a tribunal, it serves a good purpose. When describing the events I noticed how ego, sunk time costs, expectations of team speed, and weather assessment all played into the decision to climb despite the clouds above. When I started the thread I didn't think I had made any wrong decisions, given the facts available to me at the time. Yet in the honest remarks from Cragman, The Chief, HFCS, and others, I have some different perspectives on how to weight the risk factors. Of course there are always going to be times where we weigh the risks and go for it anyway, but the way I go about it is now a little better. [Edit] And don;t forget the kick-ass meteorologic tools we got on page 2.
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Snorky
Trad climber
Carbondale, CO
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Jul 22, 2010 - 02:15pm PT
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cragman, does that mean climbing is ok on Friday?
bertrand, of course you're smarter now. Sounds like a crappy time. But do you regret having the learning experience at all?
Experience comes from bad judgment...or something like that.
Glad you're alive. But seriously your optimism and civility have no place in an online forum. Try to be more polarizing please....
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Snorky
Trad climber
Carbondale, CO
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Jul 22, 2010 - 02:21pm PT
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Cragman, was that so hard? That's all i wanted to hear.
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Charlie D.
Trad climber
Western Slope, Tahoe Sierra
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Jul 22, 2010 - 02:25pm PT
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You've got a great spirit and attitude Bertrand, learning is a two way street. We should all be wiser now than last Friday.
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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Jul 22, 2010 - 02:27pm PT
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cragman,
you really are a jackass.
your brawn here in this safe forum environment does nothing to cover up your obvious insecurities and ill ways.
in my outspoken opinion, this was a better place before you arrived.
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Bertrand
climber
California
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 22, 2010 - 02:28pm PT
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Glad you're alive. But seriously your optimism and civility have no place in an online forum. Try to be more polarizing please....
Haha..I usually agree, but I just got gear back and great advice by being nice. I am polarizing on my other threads.
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Snorky
Trad climber
Carbondale, CO
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Jul 22, 2010 - 02:33pm PT
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Cragman, that's sad. Maybe YOUR life is like a sewer.
If my life was like a sewer, I would merely be concerned with getting out of it, regardless of what I put in.
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Snorky
Trad climber
Carbondale, CO
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Jul 22, 2010 - 02:44pm PT
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It became a "weenie measuring match" when Cragman pulled out his thunderstorm story to compare to the OP's. He made it all about him. FIGJAM!
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Jul 22, 2010 - 02:49pm PT
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If it looks at all crappy, don't go up high on long routes. Do something 1-pitch near the road. At least you'll get something done.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Jul 22, 2010 - 02:51pm PT
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cragman,
you really are a jackass.
your brawn here in this safe forum environment does nothing to cover up your obvious insecurities and ill ways.
What???
lame....
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Gene
Social climber
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Jul 22, 2010 - 02:59pm PT
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Let's put this thread to bed folks. It has outlived its usefullness.
Thanks,
g
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Snorky
Trad climber
Carbondale, CO
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Jul 22, 2010 - 03:03pm PT
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If you have to explain it, then it's a crappy axiom.
again, I get nothing out of the sewer.
If you get out what you put in, then Life is more like a refrigerator.
See, that makes sense.
All I learned here was that there are some chatty characters around. I already knew that thunderstorms were frightening.
lastly: what gene said.
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The Alpine
Big Wall climber
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Jul 22, 2010 - 08:25pm PT
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Live via a droid cell phone: currently sitting atop the dana plateau after sumiting via a suspcted new route on the formation nnw of the pillar. As seen from the tioga road it is the giant right facing corner on the long ridge/wall to the right of the third pillar. Anybody know of existing routes on this formation? Time to go cook some ramen wih columbine salad.
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Gene
Social climber
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Jul 22, 2010 - 08:30pm PT
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The Alpine,
Kewl! Got pics of the route. Email 'em to my ST addy and I'll put 'em up.
How's the weather? :)
g
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Jul 22, 2010 - 09:02pm PT
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for a minute there i thought i was in the 911 thread!
there are really some crotchety MFer's around here.
i guess when one is backpacking in the Winds lets say, they ought to use their Sat Phone to check the weather b4 climbing? right....
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cleo
Social climber
Berkeley, CA
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Jul 23, 2010 - 01:43pm PT
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Okay Eastside Boyz + Local Wise Men...
I'm looking at the weather forecast for this weekend, and it's giving me some willies. Stay OFF the high peaks in Northern Yosemite this weekend? Or only Sunday? Are we regulated to cragging (or hiking)?
Here's what the Dweebs are saying in Mammoth:
SATURDAY:
MOISTURE AT 700MB WILL INCREASE THROUGH SATURDAY AND PWS ARE FORECASTED TO INCREASE TO .5 IN. WITH MAIN FOCUSING STILL EXPECTED WITHIN THE MONO CO. CONVERGENCE AREA. SATURDAY'S STORMS WILL STILL BE RELATIVELY DRY AND SO DRY LIGHTNING WILL BE THE MAIN ISSUE IN THE HIGH COUNTY SATURDAY PM.
SUNDAY:
BY SATURDAY AFTERNOON....THE UPPER JET OF 50-KNOTS ASSOCIATED WITH THE UPPER CUT OFF:
1. BEGINS TO PULL THE CUT-OFF TOWARD THE COAST, AGAIN CHANNELING MORE MOISTURE INTO THE AREA FOR SUNDAY.
2. THE NOSE OF THE UPPER JET IS NEAR THE CENTRAL COAST SATURDAY AND INLAND OVER N/CENTRAL CA SUNDAY. THIS WILL ADD THE POSSIBILITY OF STORMS AFTER MID NIGHT SATURDAY NIGHT, ESPECIALLY FOR THE NORTHERN SIERRA WITH GOOD STORM DEVELOPMENT FOR THE CENTRAL SIERRA SUNDAY.
SUNDAY LOOKS TO BE THE BEST DAY FOR SCATTERED THUNDERSTORMS OVER MAMMOTH LAKES
AS PRECIPITABLE WATER INCREASES TO 0.75 INCH COMBINED WITH WITH STRONG DYNAMICAL FORCING.....AS THE UPPER JET PULLS IN COOLER AIR ALOFT WHICH ADDS TO FURTHER INSTABILITY.
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The Alpine
Big Wall climber
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Oct 24, 2010 - 09:47pm PT
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...............
EDIT
The Alpine- So it sounds like you were P3-P4 when it started lightning in the vincinity. Yet you decided to carry on. No judgment, HERE, just curious. At P4-P5 it was raining and lightning- thickly all about- as you pulled P5 and topped out?! If so, wow.
Okay, I got it: "It was heroic."
............
That pretty much sums it up. We knew we were hosed, just weren't sure of the BEST thing to do. Apparently hiding under the large boulder on top was the LAST thing we should've done. Was a great learning experience, and a good lesson to learn.
The next time my helmet and gear starts buzzing.... I'll probably just do the same damn thing.
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