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mjb
Trad climber
Point Pleasant, NJ
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Jun 25, 2010 - 09:39am PT
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If this in Ken's post is true:
The money came with a condition that they could pass out bottled water. I told them I would not allow that as we have some of the best tap water in the world and I don't feel that it was a good message. They refused. Bottled water may have it's place, it just isn't everywhere. End of story.
Then it would appear that this sponsorship would have been acceptable if the company had decided to just give the money to Facelift and required their company name be associated with the event.
So it would have been OK for the "EVIL Bottled Water Company" to promote their product through association with the event but not through sampling in plastic bottles?
Reminds me of an old joke about a man who asks a woman whether she would have sex with him for a million dollars and she says "yes". He then asks her if $50 would be enough, to which she replies, "What do you think I am?"
His response, "We have already determined that, now all we are doing is negotiating the price!"
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ATS
Social climber
escondido, ca
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Jun 25, 2010 - 10:01am PT
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Forest, I'm paying plenty close attention. I own my own home is SoCal, and by statute I receive a municipal water test synopsis every (other?) year. The water tastes the way it does and smells the way it does because of masking chemicals, and you should see the list of goodies the water plant pours into the system.
And if you reread my post, I never said bottled waters were exclusively better. Many of us have known about the bait and switch of Aquafina for years. And, if someone is foolish enough to buy into the Fuji water label, then they deserve what they drink. Ultimately it is up to the consumer to be wise, and there are some genuine choices out there.
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Chicken Skinner
Trad climber
Yosemite
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 25, 2010 - 10:50am PT
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MJB, Call me what you will.
I have turned down three different water companies in the past. I am more than happy to have them participate but under one condition and that is that they encourage the use of a reuse-able container by operating a water station. They either do not have that capability or are not willing to. I feel that they need to pursue that direction for the future.
Ken
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janeclimber
Ice climber
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Jun 25, 2010 - 05:28pm PT
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Way to go, man!
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Jun 25, 2010 - 05:35pm PT
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You can say "no" to the water bottle people, but make sure you keep Missy and Gretchen - The Beer Girls!! Talk about "value-added service", eh?
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Gene
Social climber
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Jun 25, 2010 - 06:03pm PT
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mjb,
No one single person on our planet has done more than Ken Yager to preserve the history of our silly passion of going vertical in Yosemite. If that weren’t enough to earn our respect and gratitude, Facelift is his creation. Ken has given his all to Yosemite at great personal cost in term of money, time, and navigating the bureaucratic maze. He does it because he has passion, vision and leadership. Ken doesn’t need anyone to defend him. His actions are more articulate than anything I can possibly say.
Your make two insinuations about his integrity and character.
If this in Ken's post is true: Bank it. It’s true.
Your other insinuation…
"We have already determined that, now all we are doing is negotiating the price!"
…doesn’t merit a response.
Why don’t you join us at Facelift. You’ll find it rewarding.
Gene
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H
Mountain climber
there and back again
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Jun 25, 2010 - 07:06pm PT
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Right on Ken. A company that willing to donate that kind of money is an example of the good work you are doing and the potential the Facelift has.
On a side note. we just did a clean up at our local crag. I went to our local Calastoga bottling plant, who have always supported our clean up, to ask for water for our volunteers. I notice a few years ago it was bought out by the Nestle corporation! I did not think much of it at the time.
When I showed up this year the plant was dead. Looking through the windows I noticed it was empty. Calistoga was one of the only water plants that was actually bottled at the source. What was a long standing is now history. It happens, it was phased out and replaced by Arrowhead. Go figure.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Jun 25, 2010 - 07:07pm PT
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I saw part of a tv show the other day on water.
Bottled water was HUGE around the turn of the century due to tainted muncipal supplies. Someone finally developed the chlorination process which made city water safe and the bottled water industry fell off a cliff.
It's sill a way of life in other countries without good water.
If I buy bottled water (it's cold and I don't have anything else) I look for real spring water.
I might have said this already but it would be funny to take their money and have them pass out the bottles next to a water filling station. So you could just dump out their treated city water and fill the bottle with delicious Yosemite water. But I don't think they'd be back the next year!
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photonez
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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Jun 25, 2010 - 07:09pm PT
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Bump for the YCA stainless water bottle. Take back the tap!
Ez
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jun 26, 2010 - 02:28am PT
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PTPP: You can say "no" to the water bottle people, but make sure you keep Missy and Gretchen - The Beer Girls!! Talk about "value-added service", eh? Kind of like the "value added" when you 'share' a personal bottomless $20 FaceLift beer glass amongst several friends, eh?
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Jun 26, 2010 - 12:58pm PT
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BITD, there were things called working public drinking fountains (WPDFs). you found 'em everywhere--city parks, public sidewalks, building lobbies, the place you work at. they were all supplied by the public sweetw#ter supply, not too bad in a lot of places. this was part of the general acknowledgment that human beings need to take a drink of water several times a day, just like we have to pee and poo. extremely intelligent individuals even figured out they could fill small personal containers from a WPDF and drink remotely.
WPDFs are now in deep disrepair. the last trickle came out of most them years ago in order to create a market for plastic bottles. we are now part of a general pay-per-drink system, and a nice slice of the price of the plastic swiggie goes to ... (mwahahahahaha). places to pee and poo without buying a meal are getting pretty scarce too in many areas.
somebody called up the l.a. RCS back around 1990 and wanted a woman to do a little third-class buildering unroped about five stories up as a stunt double in an action movie. the gal the guy who answered the phone wanted to make points with earned $10,000 in one hour. nice work if you can get it.
there isn't much loose money around these days. when you see a wad like that, you gotta start questioning motives. sounds like they refused ken as much as he refused them. they wanted to control the situation. that isn't sponsorship.
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Magic Ed
climber
Nuevo Leon, Mexico
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Jun 27, 2010 - 04:14pm PT
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I thought plastic bottles were recyclable and made into all kinds of other things from road surfaces to the monkey wool we all wear on our backs. I would have taken the 20 grand and advocated for more and better recycling. Personally, I'm more concerned with the water itself--not how it's packaged.
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jclimb1
Trad climber
Moab, UT
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Jun 28, 2010 - 05:15pm PT
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Water bottles & other crap were raining down on us when fixing pitches on mescalito recently. They were blowing over from the nose. I returned after completing the route to get a fixed rope & it was all still there along w/ more crap. If you drop sh#t from the wall, make the effort to go back & pick it up!
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Captain...or Skully
Big Wall climber
Transporter Room 2
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Jun 28, 2010 - 05:17pm PT
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Word.
Thanks for standing up for what you believe, Ken.
I'm with ya.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Jun 28, 2010 - 09:13pm PT
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that town harbors WPDFs
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Chicken Skinner
Trad climber
Yosemite
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 29, 2010 - 12:20am PT
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Tony,
You have a good point. When growing up there were public fountains in abundance. Europe still had them last time I was there. Over the years they have disappeared in the US and what few are left are not maintained.
Ken
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dougs510
Social climber
down south
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bump... Not sure how I stumbled across this, but it has made me stop and think about using bottled water.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Well, as this one popped up, a thought. Lots of plastic bottles get picked up at the FaceLift. I pick up some at Squamish every year, plus the odd one near home. A significant proportion have the screw top attached. Which means that people first take the (slight) trouble of putting the top back on, and then just toss the whole thing away. Instead of just throwing both, the cap when it's first removed, then the bottle when finished.
What's with that? Does it suggest that they think that someone will pick it up, even if it's tossed, and therefore it should have its cap on? Very odd.
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