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go-B
climber
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May 27, 2010 - 05:21pm PT
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Jesus loves you!
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WBraun
climber
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May 27, 2010 - 05:43pm PT
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Corn nut
All your blather and you can't even understand the word spirit.
Look it up it's even in the dictionary. Yes of course you the Corn Nut is inventing his own religion and dictionary to exactly contradict his own philosophy.
Even the gross materialists are not as ignorant as you .....
Take a good look at number 3
spir·it
–noun
1.the principle of conscious life; the vital principle in humans, animating the body or mediating between body and soul.
2.the incorporeal part of humans: present in spirit though absent in body.
3.the soul regarded as separating from the body at death.
4.conscious, incorporeal being, as opposed to matter: the world of spirit.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Topic Author's Reply - May 27, 2010 - 05:52pm PT
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Brawny- I thought we agreed: in the interest of any meaningful discourse at all, you'd hang out on Go-B's thread. Get off my grass.
spirit (<Latin spirare, to breathe) Usage examples: 1. When the body machine dies, the carnate spirit dies. This life is not a rehearsal. Carpe diem. 2. The carnate spirit is a thing of beauty- see it expressed in the flying sparrow, in the sprinting cheetah, in the blossoming iris, even in the dustups between egoistic politicians and ideologues.
EDIT 3:24p Dang it, Brawny. Don't you have an LM741 op amp or two you can go wirewrap into your aluminum pointy hat?
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WBraun
climber
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May 27, 2010 - 06:22pm PT
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Hard scientific evidence is the imitator "GOD" .
Hard science is defective ultimately in the end due to the finite limitations and duality.
The materialist of the mundane world is infected with the four defects.
1) Is sure to commit mistakes
2) Is invariably illusioned,
3) Has the tendency to cheat others and
4) Is limited by imperfect senses.
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WBraun
climber
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May 27, 2010 - 06:39pm PT
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Belief system?
That's your system.
Stop drooling and go back to your laboratory ...... :-)
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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May 27, 2010 - 06:41pm PT
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rectorsquid- "I also think if I'm wrong, so are all the idiots who speak of hell, and suggest that they would know what God would do with me."
"Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." Mathew 10:28
Do you consider Jesus an idiot?
BTW, You were right, there are many people worse than you. And each will get their just reward.
The Bible say's there are different levels of hell, for instance, Hitler will get his just reward.
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EvolveOrExtinct
Social climber
SinCity
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May 27, 2010 - 07:09pm PT
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TriplDip
Do you consider Jesus an idiot? No, I consider Jesus dead. and the bible, well it is just a compilation of a bunch of different peoples takes on what he was like when he was around. Kinda like a great big religulous version of the telephone game... lets see how much this (hi)story gets garbled, inflated, conflated and frankly flatulated by all these different people before it is compiled into one volume. Dont get me wrong, I bet Jesus the man was one hell of a cool cat, like the Ghandi or Dali Lama of his time. I'm sure he was dropping all kinds of gems that his peeps later wrote down for him and yes alot of them are great oneliners to live by but the son of god? Which brings me to the next point...
I also think if I'm wrong, so are all the idiots who speak of hell, and suggest that they would know what God would do with me.
I think what he is saying that goes right over your head, that even if he is wrong and there is an afterlife, of all the possible afterlifes there could be and all the possible deities running the show that your chosen version of it and the big guy in the sky is the right one is as unlikely as you winning every major lottery on the planet simultaneously and if you are so sure you are right then you are the narcissistic ones. Additionally, if there is a god, the secret handshake to get into his club is not going to be you admitted his existence or said your hail marys but that you simply were moral, kind and compassionate, things that are by no means mutually exclusive with being scientific and devoutly atheist.
And Werner "Hard science is defective ultimately in the end due to the finite limitations and duality.".... please use words strung together that make real sense instead of just ones you think sound cool please.
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WBraun
climber
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May 27, 2010 - 07:26pm PT
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EvolveOrExtinct
There not cool, that's your imagination.
Back to the laboratory for you too .....
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EvolveOrExtinct
Social climber
SinCity
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May 27, 2010 - 07:28pm PT
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Still making no sense Werner...
There not cool, that's your imagination.
Did you mean they're... or their.... wait it doesnt matter, it still wouldnt make sense.
And I'm in the lab now... mwuahahaha!!
Edit: I dont mean to sound snide... well yes I do but I shouldn't. My participation in this forum is not meant to be mean but to assist in protection of the masses from religulous ideals that they should not have forced on them. I try very hard to respect other peoples opinions but have a habit of de-evolving into a name caller and a maker-funner-of when people denigrate my position.
As to my anonymity, we all have our reasons but mine regarding this forum is future employment. if I google myself by early in the second page I can see posts of mine from ST where I used my real name and though I would wholeheartedly say all these things to someone face to face (after gauging if I would even have this type of conversation with them in the first place), I don't want potential employers seeing this not knowing what their beliefs are and if I would allow myself to have this type of conversation with them.
And as to anyone thinking I am an alternate avatar to Pate or HFCS, I dare you to find an instance where they are as long winded or as capable of run-on sentences as I am.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Topic Author's Reply - May 27, 2010 - 07:37pm PT
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My carnate spirit knows that point, I've run it and biked it. Just off the Tahoe Rim trail either there are right above. Right? Pan to the right and you'll take in Freel and Monument. Ha! That's a beautiful laboratory, keep up the good work.
My carnate spirit rejoices.
EDIT 4:42p: No idea, Wes. Which kind? and what's the difference?
"...and the name is relevant to this thread." Hmm...
Well, I just learned that they're either neutral or alkaline, not acidic (like bogs). Still, you stumped me...
Oh, you mean the "proper name"? No idea. Israel Fen?
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WBraun
climber
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May 27, 2010 - 07:46pm PT
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Oh thank you so much Pate, what an honor.
I'm drooling in bliss now .....
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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May 27, 2010 - 07:46pm PT
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been doing a little reading lately on origins of christianity and literary analysis of what people consider sacred scripture. books by elaine pagels and bart ehrmann, meticulous, knowledgeable scholars who have traced the texts and learned the languages. ehrmann's book, "misquoting jesus," is a good place to start.
most protestants accept the eloquent but textually corrupt st. james bible as some kind of work of god. catholics are a little more scholarly, but the crux of the matter is the imposition of orthodoxy through constantine, giving christians a narrow basis for their own religious heritage. there are many "apocryphal" gospels which present a more hippie-like, less rational, less administrable christianity. most believers don't even have idle curiosity about it, or, if they're catholic, take orders from on high to avoid forbidden books.
fyi, also got into a little egyptology study. the roots of judaism are in egypt. freud pointed that out, but it isn't everything to do with akhenaten. some think the "amen" by which prayers are ended is a holdover from the top god of egypt. whether that's true or not, check this out:
"you are amon, the lord of the silent one
who comes at the plea of the lowly one
i called out to you when i was distressed,
and you came and rescued me.
you give breath to him who is weak,
you rescue him who is in dire straits.
you are amon-re, lord of thebes
who rescues him who is in the abyss,
for you are one who is merciful when you are called upon
you are the one who comes from afar."
writers of bible books didn't think this stuff up first. from the period of ramses 2nd, new kingdom.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Topic Author's Reply - May 27, 2010 - 07:58pm PT
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Tony- Regarding egyptology: Another little known fact among Christians is that Cleopatra was "Daughter of Isis" and her brother Ptolemy was "Son of Amon-Re." (a) It says so right on their stone monuments and (b) they lived in the same era as Jesus of Nazereth, "Son of Jehovah."
It is absolutely uneqivocally religulous to know this fact yet still cling to the God Jesus idea. About as religulous as believing in God Ptolemy or God Cleopatra.
But, hey, were supposed to keep an open mind, not make any decisions, not utilize our evolved decision-making powers- otherwise, so say the Christians, we display arrogance, narcissism, closemindedness, intolerance...
Are Christians believers in God Cleopatra, Daughter of Isis? There's no end to the absurdities. It is religulous!
EDIT Of course, I'd like to post up a picture of me posing on a huge camel in front of the Great Pyramid in Egypt but then I'd lose the authority of my avatar. And my ex-, actually her inlaws who are fundamentalist Christians, would probably photoshop it in a very unbecoming way. Uh, shucks...
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Topic Author's Reply - May 27, 2010 - 09:54pm PT
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Pate, that's religulous!
...more coffee?
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Port
Trad climber
San Diego
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May 28, 2010 - 12:09am PT
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As if scientology is any more crazy than Christianity? I think its funny when people of faith bash on other religions. As if their belief system is totally rational and the other is fiction. Religulous.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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May 28, 2010 - 01:14am PT
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Okay, make me work. Be like that. But let's take a sober look at one of these really out there threads and sort out the folly from the essence.
This is tossed out there as though scientific literacy, or quantified datum, is the end all per true knowledge and wisdom.
It may or may not be the end all of true knowledge. On the other hand, spirituality has nothing at all to do with knowledge. It is only related to feelings, mythology, belief.
FIRST, NOTE THAT THIS FOOLISHNESS IS POSITED AS A SIMPLE AND OBVIOUS FACT, WHEN THE AUTHOR DOESN'T AT ALL KNOW, FOR A FACT, WHAT HE CLAIMS TO KNOW. WHERE, FOR INSTANCE, DID HE EVER GET THE IDEA THAT SPIRITUALITY WAS BEHOLDEN TO FEELINGS, MYTHOLOGY AND BELIEFS. HOW DOES HE INCONTROVERTIBLY KNOW THAT THIS IS THE CASE? IN SHORT, HE DOES NOT, AND HE IS BEING DISHONEST IN IMPLYING THAT HE DOES, AND HAT NO ONE ELSE, THROUGHOUT TIME AND SPACE, DOES EITHER. THIS IS THE CORE OF THE NARCISSISM I SPOKE OF EARLIER, AND IS PLAIN TO SEE IN THIS SILLY-RABBIT RIFF.
If anything spiritual could be measured, proven, predicted, it would no longer be spiritual. So science may actually be the end all per knowledge and wisdom but spirituality can never be that. If there is a God and things of a mystical nature, they can only fill in the blank where science leaves off, or vice-versa.
NOTE THE CONFUSION BETWEEN KNOWLEDGE (FACTS AND FIGURES), AND WISDOM. QUANTIFIABLE INFORMATION DOES NOT MAKE ANYONE WISE. THE LAST SENTENCE BETRAYS THE CLOSED CIRCLE OF THE MATERIAL REDUCTIONIST. WHAT DO YOU BELIEVE
LIES IN THE "BLANK?" IF NOT SOME SECRET STUFF NOT YET QUANTIFIABLE BY SCIENCE. IF THERE'S "NOTHING" THERE, THEN THE BLANK IS EMPTY RIGHT? NOW WHAT IS THE NATURE OF THAT EMPTINESS?
True enlightenment can be achieved through science but not through religion. To think otherwise would be to disregard all known scientific data and treat it as illusion.
they know for a fact that all things spiritual are bunk, lies, mere ideations, feelings, beliefs, sensations, or things with qualities.
No true scientist would ever say that there is no life after death, God, etc..., because it is impossible to prove that something does not exist. I might say that the evidence makes me thing the probability is low but no amount of evidence can lower the probability.
YOUR STILL TRYING TO FORCE SPIRITUAL MATTERS INTO MATERIAL TERMS AND CONSTRUCTS, ERGO, YOU'RE USING THE WRONG TOOL (MEASURING), BUT SINCE IT'S THE ONLY TOOL YOU BELIEVE YOU HAVE (IT'S NOT), YOU'RE STUFF WITH HAVING TO DEAL ONLY WITH THINGS.
To say that I am wrong about God because your parents told you I was wrong or because you hear voices in your head is arrogant and self-centered. Telling me you know what God will do with me when I die is arrogant. Telling me that any of you religulous nuts knows anything about the true nature of God is the most arrogant thing I can imagine in the entire world. It's almost obscene.
NOW THIS LAST BIT IS JUST AS PUERILE RANT AND YOU KNOW IT, AND IT MUDDLES THE ISSUES HORRIBLY.IT ALSO IMPLIES THAT ANYONE, THROUGHOUT SPACE AND TIME, WHO HAS EXPERIENCES OR INSIGHTS DIFFERENT THAN YOURS (THERE IS NO SPIRITUAL DIMENSION) MUST HAVE GOTTEN THEM FROM THEIR FOLKS, FROM AUDIO HALLUCINATIONS, AND THAT WE'RE ALL "NUTS."
WHAT'S MOST OBVIOUS HERE IS A GREAT TERROR OF BEING WRONG, AND AN EVEN GREATER TERROR OF INVESTIGATING THE UNKNOWN - SO MUCH SO THAT NOT ONE OF THESE MATERIAL REDUCTIONIST NUTTERS HAS ASKED A SINGLE QUESTION ABOUT THINGS THEY DO NOT KNOW. THE MAIN PROBLEM IS THAT THE INVESTIGATION DOES NOT COME FROM A POSITION OF CURIOSITY, OPENNESS AND WONDER, BUT OF JUDGEMENT: YOU ARE WRONG AND I AM RIGHT.
THAT'S A CLOSED CIRCLE IN ANY LANGUAGE.
jl
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Topic Author's Reply - May 28, 2010 - 01:19am PT
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Pate, I think Port's on the sensible side of the fire. He's a reasoner and freethinker. (Pretty sure. I'd wish he post more.) I'd climb with him on Keeler for sure! Hey, and let me explain... I alluded to the coffee and English muffin bit because of the other day when some where postulating we were the same guy! The other day I just had this flash of how funny it would be if you and I, say, were two roommates sharing a studio in San Fran by design causing all this commotion from our laptaps at the breakfast table! Pretty funny, it was, that imagery in my head. So that was the reference to the coffee. So what's with drinkin diet colas, man? LOL.
Man, miscommunication's so easy in matters of faith. Ol time supernaturalisms can really muck up the waters.
Port- thanks for using the word religulous, it helps me sink it deep into my working vocabulary.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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May 28, 2010 - 01:28am PT
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ANOTEHR DOOSY WORTH REVIEWING:
"...they know for a fact that all things spiritual are bunk, lies, mere ideations..."
Another caricature. Another strawman. No one I know "from my camp of decision making and beliefs" or "from my school of thought" thinks such a thing. Religulous.
--
I presume you are using caricature to mean a cartoon or misrepresentation. This is and odd thing coming from someone who has gone on a wild rant and called it a mission of sober, courageous and even heroic rationality. So I'll ask you two things: A) if no one in your "camp" believes all things spiritual are bunk, lies, and mere ideations, what do you think they are? and B) what about spirituality (the unquantifiable) are you in the dark about, and try and come up with one meaningful question about what you do not know. Again, the question cannot be about doctrine, beliefs, religious "experiences," or any thing or stuff.
Good luck with that one. I don't suspect it will be easy for you.
JL
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Port
Trad climber
San Diego
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May 28, 2010 - 03:33am PT
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Pate, I have a very basic understanding of the Scientology belief system. I know it was founded by L.Ron Hubbard (A fiction writer) and they believe in a god named Xenu. I also understand they have a practice called "auditing," which is used to restore the body from control of the (engrahms?).
Scientologists are crazy, but how much more crazy than believing in a talking snake, a man who walked on water, a virgin birth, fallen angels, etc. I think you get my point. Scientology strikes me more as a cult than religion. But there's a fine between cult and religion.
I just finished a great book, Jesus Interrupted, by Bart Ehraman. He is also the author of Misquoting Jesus. If you have a chance, its a great read. He is professor of religious studies at University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill. The book is a collection of all the inaccuracies/contradictions found in the bible. These are just a few of the HUNDREDS of contradictions.
1.) The Death of Jesus in Mark and John. In John (19:14), Jesus is crucified "about noon." Whereas in Mark, Jesus lived throughout the whole day, prepared a Passover meal, was arrested, put on the trial the next day, and executed at about 9am on Passover day.
2.) The Birth of Jesus In Matthew (1:18-2:23) Wise men arrive from the east following a star that leads them to Jerusalem. They then proceed to Bethlehem. They offer gifts. In Luke (1:4-2:40) there are no wise men, they are shepherds.
3.) The death of Jesus In Mark (15:16-39) Jesus in condemned by Pontius Pilate, beaten by the Romans, and then crucified. Jesus remains silent during this ordeal. In Luke (23:34) Jesus is not silent, and speaks to wailing women on his way to be crucified. He is mocked by Jewish leaders but not by the men being crucified with him, unlike in Mark.
So if the bible is the word of God, why didn't God get his story straight? (I'm hoping that Klimmer will address these contradictions)
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