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brotherbbock
Trad climber
Alta Loma, CA
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May 27, 2010 - 01:37pm PT
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This pretty much sums up my path.
from Wikipedia's description of theistic evolution:
Theistic evolution is not a theory in the scientific sense, but a particular view about how the science of evolution relates to religious belief and interpretation. Theistic evolution supporters can be seen as one of the groups who reject the conflict thesis regarding the relationship between religion and science – that is, they hold that religious teachings about creation and scientific theories of evolution need not contradict.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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May 27, 2010 - 01:55pm PT
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can you define "truth"?
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brotherbbock
Trad climber
Alta Loma, CA
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May 27, 2010 - 02:01pm PT
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no......other than truth is something that we are constantly seeking.
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go-B
climber
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May 27, 2010 - 02:03pm PT
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You can't handle the truth!
Jesus is LORD!
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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May 27, 2010 - 02:05pm PT
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so you're thread is totally pointless because you cannot even define the fundamental idea that you believe is necessary and operative to your point of view
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brotherbbock
Trad climber
Alta Loma, CA
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May 27, 2010 - 02:27pm PT
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I am a Theistic Evolutionist Ed.
How many times do I need to say what my personal truth is in one thread?????
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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May 27, 2010 - 02:37pm PT
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you never learned the difference between "use" and "mention" either, apparently...
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brotherbbock
Trad climber
Alta Loma, CA
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May 27, 2010 - 02:42pm PT
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What is this???? Get the last degrading remark in the thread game???
In that case your beard looks like a rat's nest of muons and gluons.
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WandaFuca
Social climber
From the gettin place
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May 27, 2010 - 02:45pm PT
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brotherbbock,
It seems that you are probably finishing your semester in Philosophy 1A--good luck with finals!
The creaky, cobweb-ridden arguments you are trotting out here on ST have numerous flaws. Just google some of them and you will find numerous refutations.
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brotherbbock
Trad climber
Alta Loma, CA
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May 27, 2010 - 02:47pm PT
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Joking aside.
Everything has numerous refutations to those who want to argue a point.
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nature
climber
Tucson, AZ
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May 27, 2010 - 02:47pm PT
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he seems to be failing that philosophy class. Clearly his understanding of logical fallacies is lacking entirely.
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WandaFuca
Social climber
From the gettin place
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May 27, 2010 - 02:53pm PT
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Ed Hartouni:
can you define "truth"?
brotherbbock; I am a Theistic Evolutionist Ed.
How many times do I need to say what my personal truth is in one thread?????
Ed: you never learned the difference between "use" and "mention" either, apparently...
brotherbbock: What is this???? Get the last degrading remark in the thread game???
In that case your beard looks like a rat's nest of muons and gluons.
It's not a degrading remark. Ed's just pointing out that you're not ready for Philosopy 301.
You say you're for this or for that, but you can't define your terms. Most everybody can talk; before you are ready for upper division classes, you need to know how to really use words and ideas.
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brotherbbock
Trad climber
Alta Loma, CA
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May 27, 2010 - 03:00pm PT
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I know what he was refering to Wandaf*#ka.
Do we need to have an insert joke formatting tag??
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WandaFuca
Social climber
From the gettin place
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May 27, 2010 - 03:02pm PT
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I know what he was refering to Wandf*#ka.
When I said you need to learn how to use words, that wasn't quite what I meant.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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May 28, 2010 - 03:28pm PT
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Tony Bird,
Wonderful Life is correct. Appologize for the alcohol induced brain fart, but Mickey did descend from man, so maybe we are going backward now.
I will check out Conway-Morris and see what's up. I've never seen Science and Religion as mutually exclusive. I just think that trying to use one to disprove the other is the wrong approach and waste of time. If "God" is "wholly other" and as some imply, proving god's existence/non-existence is a real conundrum. I think people should continue to persue their own paradigms and see where they lead.......
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brotherbbock
Trad climber
Alta Loma, CA
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May 28, 2010 - 03:41pm PT
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Stahlbro wrote:
If "God" is "wholly other" and as some imply, proving god's existence/non-existence is a real conundrum. I think people should continue to persue their own paradigms and see where they lead.......
That is my main point of this entire God forsaken thread.
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brotherbbock
Trad climber
Alta Loma, CA
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May 28, 2010 - 04:43pm PT
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Pate you are next on the list!! Ha...lol!
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brotherbbock
Trad climber
Alta Loma, CA
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May 28, 2010 - 04:52pm PT
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Then I would say you are not an A-hole!!!
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go-B
climber
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May 28, 2010 - 05:09pm PT
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(Pate; go-b, I'll play your game.)
Judgment on Jerusalem and the Nations
Zephaniah 3:1- Woe to her who is rebellious and defiled,
the oppressing city!
2 She listens to no voice;
she accepts no correction.
She does not trust in the Lord;
she does not draw near to her God.
3 Her officials within her
are roaring lions;
her judges are evening wolves
that leave nothing till the morning.
4 Her prophets are fickle, treacherous men;
her priests profane what is holy;
they do violence to the law.
5 The Lord within her is righteous;
he does no injustice;
every morning he shows forth his justice;
each dawn he does not fail;
but the unjust knows no shame.
6 “I have cut off nations;
their battlements are in ruins;
I have laid waste their streets
so that no one walks in them;
their cities have been made desolate,
without a man, without an inhabitant.
7 I said, ‘Surely you will fear me;
you will accept correction.
Then your dwelling would not be cut off
according to all that I have appointed against you.’
But all the more they were eager
to make all their deeds corrupt.
8 “Therefore wait for me,” declares the Lord,
“for the day when I rise up to seize the prey.
For my decision is to gather nations,
to assemble kingdoms,
to pour out upon them my indignation,
all my burning anger;
for in the fire of my jealousy
all the earth shall be consumed.
The Conversion of the Nations
9 “For at that time I will change the speech of the peoples
to a pure speech,
that all of them may call upon the name of the Lord
and serve him with one accord.
10 From beyond the rivers of Cush
my worshipers, the daughter of my dispersed ones,
shall bring my offering.
11 “On that day you shall not be put to shame
because of the deeds by which you have rebelled against me;
for then I will remove from your midst
your proudly exultant ones,
and you shall no longer be haughty
in my holy mountain.
12 But I will leave in your midst
a people humble and lowly.
They shall seek refuge in the name of the Lord,
13 those who are left in Israel;
they shall do no injustice
and speak no lies,
nor shall there be found in their mouth
a deceitful tongue.
For they shall graze and lie down,
and none shall make them afraid.”
Israel's Joy and Restoration
14 Sing aloud, O daughter of Zion;
shout, O Israel!
Rejoice and exult with all your heart,
O daughter of Jerusalem!
15 The Lord has taken away the judgments against you;
he has cleared away your enemies.
The King of Israel, the Lord, is in your midst;
you shall never again fear evil.
16 On that day it shall be said to Jerusalem:
“Fear not, O Zion;
let not your hands grow weak.
17 The Lord your God is in your midst,
a mighty one who will save;
he will rejoice over you with gladness;
he will quiet you by his love;
he will exult over you with loud singing.
18 I will gather those of you who mourn for the festival,
so that you will no longer suffer reproach.
19 Behold, at that time I will deal
with all your oppressors.
And I will save the lame
and gather the outcast,
and I will change their shame into praise
and renown in all the earth.
20 At that time I will bring you in,
at the time when I gather you together;
for I will make you renowned and praised
among all the peoples of the earth,
when I restore your fortunes
before your eyes,” says the Lord.
ESV Study Bible Notes
Introduction to Zephaniah
Zeph. 1:7–3:20 The Day of the Lord. The remainder of the prophecy concerns the multifaceted “day of the Lord,” which on the one hand holds judgment (1:7–3:8), and on the other, hope (3:9–20). It affects not only God's covenant nation (1:8–13; 2:1–3; 3:1–7) but others as well (1:14–18; 2:4–15). Looking to more immediate, historical fulfillment (2:4–15), it also points toward the distant future (1:14–18; 3:8–13; Acts 17:31; 2 Pet. 3:10; Rev. 20:11–15). On the theme of the “day of the Lord,” see note on Amos 5:18–20 and chart.
Zeph. 2:4–3:8 Nations Warned. As in Amos's prophecy (Amos 1:3–2:3), the judgment prophecy first focuses on Israel's neighbors and enemies (Zeph. 2:4–15), whom Judah would have heartily joined in condemning. Only then do the people of Judah feel the focus turning on themselves (3:1–7), being just as sinful before the same just God.
Zeph. 3:1–7 Jerusalem. God's people cannot think that they will emerge unscathed on the day of the Lord. If they sin (vv. 1–4) and are shameless (v. 5), they are also held accountable, especially if they lack repentance (vv. 6–7).
Zeph. 3:1 The city is now described as defiled and oppressing. It has become ritually polluted (Isa. 59:3; Mal. 1:7) through sins of idolatry and covenant breaking. Rather than showing care, the city has become brutal and overbearing (Jer. 25:38).
Zeph. 3:3 Among those who should lead the city aright, but have in fact turned against her, are its officials, the civil authorities (1:8; 1 Chron. 28:1), and judges, those in charge of settling legal disputes (Ex. 18:13, 22). Instead of showing benevolence, these leaders were acting as roaring lions, ferocious beasts possessing great power, about to seize prey (Amos 3:4), and as evening (or desert) wolves, known for their ravenous appetite (Gen. 49:27). Leaders, rather than guarding their flock, devour it.
Zeph. 3:4 Religious officials are also condemned, including the prophets. Rather than being speakers of God's sure word, they speak their own fickle (cf. Gen. 49:4, where “unstable” is the same Hb. word) and even treacherous words (cf. Jer. 3:20). Priests have two roles, and have failed in both. First, they are to help purify sinners through presenting their offerings before God (Leviticus 1–7), but instead they make them profane, unsuitable to be in God's holy presence (Lev. 10:10; 19:8). Second, they are to teach life under the law (Lev. 10:11; Deut. 17:8–13; 33:10), but instead they do violence (Ezek. 22:26), leading others to do the same.
Zeph. 3:5 Unlike the human leaders, God perpetually shows that he is righteous in not breaking the law (Ezek. 18:5–9) and shows forth his justice in seeing that all receive fair treatment (cf. Ex. 23:6).
Zeph. 3:7 God calls the city to fear, not in panic but in respectful awe at his power (2:11; Ex. 14:31). This is further defined as willingness to accept correction (contrast Zeph. 3:2 as well as Jer. 2:30; 5:3), learning from God's reproof in renewed obedience and showing the fear of God in action (Prov. 10:17). If they were to do this, they would not experience God's judgment: your dwelling would not be cut off.
Zeph. 3:8 Summary. The section concludes with a return to worldwide judgment. The people are called to wait for God, not for possible blessing (Isa. 30:18) but rather for his coming judgment. But this time it will not be against Judah itself, since he will gather (Zeph. 3:18–20) all nations of the earth for their judgment.
Zeph. 3:9–20 Anticipation of Hope. God the judge is also God the gracious. He intends that the nations should turn to him (vv. 9–10), as well as his own people (vv. 11–13). This will cause rejoicing (vv. 14–17), not least because God alone has accomplished salvation (vv. 18–20).
Zeph. 3:9–10 Conversion of the Nations. God the judge also purifies and calls the distant ones to himself.
Zeph. 3:9 In that day, God will alter the speech (or lips) of the peoples gathered to be punished (Isa. 6:5–7). The nations had polluted speech, worshiping pagan gods, but now they will have pure speech (cf. Ps. 24:4), cleansed to call upon the name of the Lord in worship (Gen. 4:26). (Some have suggested that this may also allude to the reversal of the Babel syndrome in Gen. 11:1–9.) Worship is not only through word but also through deed, since the nations will serve him. The term ‘abad (“work, serve”) designates obedient work for God (Mal. 3:14). This service is universal, done by all, and unanimous, “with one accord” (cf. 1 Kings 22:13).
Zeph. 3:10 The Israelite exiles will be restored to their place from beyond the rivers of Cush (1:1; 2:12; Isa. 18:1) or Ethiopia. These rivers are the Blue and White Nile. “Beyond the river” more often has an eastward orientation, and it can refer to Assyria (Isa. 7:20), as can Cush (Gen. 10:6–8; see Zeph. 2:12–13). These true worshipers will now move toward Jerusalem, whether from east or west.
Zeph. 3:11–13 Judah's Return. Not ignoring their sin, God speaks of the removal of impurity from Jerusalem so that his people might be restored.
Zeph. 3:11 Jerusalem's shame (Isa. 1:29; 54:4) is over, even though it was deserved because of the people's godless deeds (Zeph. 3:1–4, 7). They had rebelled, flagrantly and purposefully turning against what they knew was right (Hos. 8:1). They were dominated by proudly exultant ones, complacent, wealthy people (Zeph. 1:8–13) who, in being haughty (Isa. 3:16), thought they were self-sufficient, needing nothing from God. Ironically, this contempt was shown in God's earthly dwelling place, his holy mountain, Zion (Obad. 16), the site of the temple.
Zeph. 3:12 God will especially provide a place for the humble and lowly (2:3) who, unlike the arrogant (3:11), know that they are in need. They not only call on God's name (v. 9) but also seek refuge in his name (see the same term in Isa. 57:13; Nah. 1:7).
Zeph. 3:13 Previous sins among God's people—injustice (v. 5), lying (Ezek. 13:6–9), and a deceitful tongue giving words that are not from God (Jer. 14:14)—will be among them no longer.
Zeph. 3:14–17 Joyful Song. As in the Psalms, people even in the throes of suffering are called to worship and give thanks for their anticipated salvation.
Zeph. 3:14 The defiled city and nation (v. 1) is raised up by being again called the beloved daughter of Zion (Isa. 62:11). Zion is an alternative name for Jerusalem, the city of David (2 Sam. 5:7) and home of the temple (Ps. 9:11; 76:2). Jerusalem's inhabitants are called Israel since, now that the northern, Israelite tribes are in exile, Judah and its capital, Jerusalem, are the only remaining people who can bear this name as descendants of the first Israel (Jacob; Gen. 28:10–15; 32:28).
Zeph. 3:15 Rejoicing is appropriate because of the presence of the real King of Israel, God, among his people. The human kings of Israel and Judah served only as representatives of Israel's true monarch, who here blesses with his presence those who repent and return to him. He is not powerless, as some had claimed (1:12).
Zeph. 3:16 When frightened or dismayed, literally one's hands grow weak (Isa. 13:7; Jer. 6:24). Since God is now present and in control, this will not happen.
Zeph. 3:17 The previously weakened nation is in the presence of the mighty one (Deut. 10:17; Ps. 24:8; Isa. 10:21; 42:13), God himself, who, unlike human warriors and heroes (Zeph. 1:14), does not lose heart. Instead of fleeing in the face of danger, God can save his people from it (Ex. 14:30). This verse remarkably adds that God himself will rejoice over you with gladness, indicating that when God's people seek him and follow him (Zeph. 3:12–13), and rejoice in him and trust him (vv. 14–16), then God personally delights in them. This is not an aloof, emotionless contentment, but it bursts forth in joyful divine celebration: he will exult over you with loud singing.
Zeph. 3:18–20 God's Promised Restoration. Joy is increased through the increased promised blessings from God.
Zeph. 3:18 This verse is very obscure, with numerous translations suggested. This version suggests that those Judean sinners who had been unable to join in the festival celebrations that were reserved for God's righteous people (see Numbers 28–29) are now able to do so once again.
Zeph. 3:19 God will act on behalf of all his flock who suffered under exile, taking steps to save the lame (Mic. 4:6–7) like a shepherd. Also, the exiles, like outcast, scattered animals (Deut. 22:1; 30:4; John 11:52), will no longer suffer shame at their plight but will rejoice that it is over.
Zeph. 3:20 God's far-flung people will face restoration at the hand of their King. Instead of being justifiably shamed for their sin, they will be renowned and praised (Deut. 26:19) because of the gracious salvation of God.
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atchafalaya
climber
Babylon
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May 28, 2010 - 05:12pm PT
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Goddamnit this christ shite is creeeeeepy.
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