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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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May 23, 2011 - 02:28am PT
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Many who haven't served in the military behave with honor, integrity and so on. The military has its own moral code, but has no monopoly on good behaviour.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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May 23, 2011 - 02:34am PT
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Well, Chief, I honor your service. Pride is your right, but your humility has some work to go.
You may think that no one who was not in the service has any concept of service, of honor, of loyalty, or of honesty...and you are free to insult anyone for their automatic deficiencies in all of those things. You need to be reminded that the highest officer in any branch of service reports to a civilian, which he addresses as "sir". Don't forget that you are a subordinate.
There are many other occupations that involve all of the elements that are mentioned above, and you should have the humility to remember that. You will find that REAL men don't have to beat their chests and yell out to everyone how superior they are. They don't have to spend time dragging others down. Maybe that's how you did it in the service, and you are suffering from not having rank on your shoulders, but it is nothing to me.
Who you are does not validate what you say, nor make it more correct.
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landcruiserbob
Trad climber
BIG ISLAND or Vail ; just following the sun.......
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May 23, 2011 - 04:06am PT
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Here's one that will hits close to home;most don't know about this dirty secret.
Is it cheating to climb above 24,000 feet on bottled 02, how about EPO?
Lots of those crazy speed records that were happening alpine style were they really off the bottle or ?????.
Chief, I follow your logic at times but you lost me long ago stating that Big Mig was clean. Not sure if you knew he came out long ago with Pedro Delgato. They all were linked to Ferrari & Festina. I liked to watch them race though.
rg
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Degaine
climber
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May 23, 2011 - 04:37am PT
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Society / cycling viewership is a bit schizo when it comes to performance enhancing drugs: determined to hunt down the dopers and the dishonest, while at the same time demanding faster times, more home runs, higher performance to stay entertained.
It's a contradiction.
One can't be surprized that cyclists dope when you look at what spectators are demanding and the money at stake in order to meet those demands.
As someone stated (the Chief?), what is disappointing is the example this sets. I know for a fact that the doping behavior in cycling trickles down (at least in Europe) to the local club levels where coaches are encouraging 13 and 14 year olds to use asthma inhalers to enhance performance. It starts out small like this and goes up from there. This is just plain detrimental to a child's health and at that young age most are certainly not aware nor mature enough to make an informed decision.
With regard to cycling, I've always been perplexed by the "hush hush" nature in general and the "solidarity" "don't rat anyone out" unwritten rule with regard to doping and then when someone is caught everyone runs for cover and leaves the caught person out to dry. When Landis won and then was caught, I vaguely remember N°2 (who became N°1) stating that we now all know who the "real" champion is, although I'm sure he was doping as well.
As far as Lance Armstrong is concerned, I admire what he has done for cancer, using his celebrity for a good cause. As far as doping is concerned, other than demonstrating that "heros" are not infallible, I fail to understand why the US Govt is wasting so much time on this. Seriously, doesn't the Dept of Justice have better things to do? Like going after the banking and financial system that almost totally destroyed the world economy? Someone brought up the couple of million that this cost, that a drop in the pot compared with the trillions the financial crisis cost us.
In any case, this is a tempest in a f*#king teapot. Unless people change their expectations with regard to pro sports (always better, higher, farther), doping and performance enhancing drugs will always be present, especially in a sport like cycling, where endurance and muscle capacity are so important (when compared with coordination and technical skill in other sports).
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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May 23, 2011 - 09:47am PT
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What i find interesting is that Hamilton spent lots of time polishing his anti-doping image along with spending the last few years of his career denying drug use...Now he's got an erection for Armstrong...What a screwball..
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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May 23, 2011 - 09:53am PT
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Chief wrote: That is where I am coming from and I do not even expect you to understand unless you have served in any branch of the Armed Services or in any combat role.
Like the ones at Abu Ghraib prison??
F*#k off your with "better than thou military" like you are the only ones that serve your country with honesty and pride...the peace corp, teachers, volunteers and others do a fine job of representing this country.
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steve shea
climber
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May 23, 2011 - 09:56am PT
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What Bob D'A said
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Degaine
climber
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May 23, 2011 - 10:20am PT
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dmt wrote:
Better living through chemicals. It IS the American Way.
No kidding. Makes the "war on drugs" seem ironic (or hypocritical?) given how much of a drug culture the American culture is.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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May 23, 2011 - 10:25am PT
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Nice post dingus...I agree.
Nancy Reagan was preaching "just say no" and Ronnie was in bed with Noriega.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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May 23, 2011 - 10:43am PT
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Chief wrote: No Bob D'A, like these REAL HERO's...
And I could post a thousand pictures like your of everyday non-military citizens doing the same.
You just don't get it do you...the military is just a imprint of the private sector...there are cheaters, liars, thieves, murderers, and every other ill type with most of the population being great people...just trying to make it.
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steve shea
climber
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May 23, 2011 - 11:37am PT
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I know the military. Had to volunteer in 68'. I do not think the military is the sole path to enlightenment when it comes to humility, honor and integrity. And Chief, get a grip, but this is a nation of independent thinkers. That's what you fought for. I think. Any way I don't see anyone here giving Armstrong a pass. Just wait till the facts are in. As for me I could care less about cycling. I did'nt know who Armstrong was until I was diagnosed to have cancer. Someone suggested his book. I took inspiration from his story and I will continue to. Like the military, cancer forces a different view of life. If Armstrong is proven to have cheated it will diminish his legacy no doubt. But I won't hate the guy. It's been entertaining but I'm done with this thread.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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May 23, 2011 - 11:39am PT
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Ekimov calls BS on allegations that LA was juiced up...
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Srbphoto
climber
Kennewick wa
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May 23, 2011 - 11:46am PT
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Doping by an American in cycling is not a product of American's need to win at all costs. It is a product of the European road racing culture. The Euros were doing it long before LA ever "turned a pedal in anger".
To assign a specific country to this problem is asinine.
Except France.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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May 23, 2011 - 01:40pm PT
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Bin Laden slept like a baby and with a bigass smile on his face for many years after 9/11. I guess that is ok with you as well.
God you people are truly sheep.
the cheef,
did LA screw your wife? slap your kid? or are you simply trying to make other vets proud and humble with all your ridiculous blather?
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climbbjj
Social climber
Tahoe
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May 23, 2011 - 01:48pm PT
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"
That is a far worse deal than going with the flow of the doping pro cyling world. That is what makes this whole deal so fking rotten. Not only did he do it, but played the saintly role of being a clean boy and consistently lying about it for so many years."
Yea, and? What was he supposed to do? Confess the first time he was asked? Just like every other tour rider throughout history has done when first asked?
What a knucklehead.
I have no idea if Lance was doping or not, but then again I don't care because if he was then he was simply on the same level playing field as everyone else and it doesn't diminish his accomplishments hardly at all. That's about all there is to it.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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May 23, 2011 - 01:58pm PT
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Chief, I have a ton of respect for your service in the Military, but I don't understand how you can say that a person can't know or understand or have honor and integrity without having served. I know many people who have not served in the military who are people of honor and integrity.
I think that LA has probably doped. I just don't understand how you can say that only those who served in the military understand or have honor and integrity.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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May 23, 2011 - 02:29pm PT
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That is where I am coming from and I do not even expect you to understand unless you have served in any branch of the Armed Services or in any combat role.
cheef,
i would argue that there are some in the military who only did the "honorable" thing because they were ordered to do it. otherwise it would have been their ass.
90% disabled? yeah i know a retired "disabled" navy guiy. loves to brag about getting a disabled check, then he does iron-mans in his spare time...talk about honor.
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Karen
Trad climber
So Cal urban sprawl Hell
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May 23, 2011 - 02:40pm PT
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I stand by my belief that Contador is doping, there is no way in hell a person can attack like he has day after day and look so fresh. He is riding Lance style, no one can touch him.
The commentators subtly elude to this with their comments.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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May 23, 2011 - 05:53pm PT
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The UCI can only confirm that Lance Armstrong has never been notified of a positive test result by any anti-doping laboratory.
from that UCI Page. wonder if da cheef will be honorable and let everyone know that he has no facts to support his accusations.
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