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MH2

Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
Jan 25, 2017 - 01:44pm PT
the remarkable amount we do know.


Not a high bar, being remarkable. Further progress from paul.
jgill

Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
Jan 25, 2017 - 02:45pm PT
But beautifully resonating literate pronouncements (if not hyperbole).
paul roehl

Boulder climber
california
Jan 25, 2017 - 03:45pm PT
Not a high bar, being remarkable. Further progress from paul.

Not a high bar? Really? How many planets in our solar system harbor conscious beings capable of the close exploration of other planets within that same system? My guess as a layperson in this field is that there are none. And how many thinking creatures on our own planet have achieved a written language in which knowledge can be stored and shared. Good grief, If humanity isn't remarkable as a species then please share your definition of remarkable.
How unusual is human intelligence? Judging from our own system of planets it is rare indeed and so the bar is apparently set "remarkably" high for the kind of intelligence you seem to take for granted.

That remarkable nature is important because our knowledge of it instills a serious responsibility to ourselves and others and to the world around us. Celebrate your unimportance and soon your actions become unimportant and meaningless as well.

And here's the real interesting mystery: it would seem the implication of intelligences less than ours, say that of a dog or rat, is that intelligence is a continuum upon which our own may be substantially lower than other forms that may exist elsewhere in the universe, and this opens us to the idea of an ultimate intelligence and the end of said continuum and what would that be?
MH2

Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
Jan 25, 2017 - 06:24pm PT
Paul,

I don't take intelligence for granted.

How do you propose to measure and compare the intelligence of different people, let alone different species?

The need for avian-specific intelligence tests illustrates the problem. Could you use the same test for ducks, parrots, hawks, etc?

We assess such a thing as intelligence, as we do beauty: through our previous experience when we heard the words or read them in a context that helped us to understand what the words mean. We have good notions of intelligence and beauty, but how do you compare examples or measure the amount of either?

As for intelligence, to test for the ability to solve a novel problem, the subject should ideally have no previous learning experience with the type of problem or the tools needed to solve it. It would also be okay if subjects had the same previous experience. Neither condition is likely to be met.

Also, when you refer to an amount of knowledge, what are the measuring units?

Might be better not to try to make a scientific case for what is essentially a subjective judgement. That's my opinion, anyway. Yours is equally valid.

WBraun

climber
Jan 25, 2017 - 06:51pm PT
The gross materialists can never measure intelligence.

Intelligence does not come from the material plane.

The gross materialists can only become smart but no more ......
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Cascade Mountains and Monterey Bay
Jan 25, 2017 - 10:09pm PT
seems you never can tell where Werner may show up next:

http://cosmiconvergence.com/2016/01/02/star-wars-the-true-back-story-about-it-why-it-become-the-worlds-newest-religion/


For the past few minutes, I had been sitting there wondering, “Why am I here? No one had even told me about this meeting.” Then, I looked around and realized that I was the most experienced student there. The others were too young, less studied in Anthroposophy and certainly not up to this level of work. I was immensely relieved that Werner would be there to lead us through the session, and sat back, relaxed.

“The dialogue is a bit lacking,” Werner said. “I told Marcia we could help with that as well.”

With that, Werner rose from his seat and said, “Well, then. My family is waiting at home and I must be off.”

None of us could believe it. America’s leading Anthroposophist was going to leave this important project in our hands?

Werner added, “Douglas is my right hand, and I will check in on your work throughout the next few days.”

He then welcomed Marcia to the resources and hospitality of the Institute and politely left.

With Werner gone, we all looked at the Institute’s co-director, Hans, to lead the session.

Hans stood up.

“Well, I must admit that science and mathematics are my true specialty,” Hans said, in his characteristic fashion. “So, I am afraid I will not be of much assistance to this group.”

He politely bid us all adieu, then left.

At this point, I became a bit panicked. My leaders had left me in a great unknown!

Marcia Lucas, who I did not know at the time was one of the greatest film editors in the world, was looking expectantly at me.

I suddenly got the feeling Werner had said something to her about me, akin to his comment about me being his “right hand.” I had a vague realization that both she and I were here solely because of Werner. Having been a brilliant actor at the London School of Theater, Werner had been the primary Anthroposophist from the Waldorf school in North Hollywood in dealing with actors, directors and producers. She was here because of him and I was here because he had brought a promising student to the table for this specialized project. Surely, he knew what he was doing, so I decided to trust it.

“Well, then, let’s get started,” I said. “Tell us the story, Marcia.”

As she spoke, I got up and went over to the classroom blackboard. Marcia had trouble articulating the story; it didn’t flow easily. In colored chalk, I began to sketch out the story- board.

“It’s a story of two robots, you see – the movie is seen through their eyes,” she said. “The robots are key elements of the story. They must be kept.”

I understood that the robots were non-negotiable. We must somehow work with them.

“Ok,” I said. “Can you please read us the starting dialogue?”

She began. It was difficult for us to listen to. As an experienced editor, Marcia knew this. The characters didn’t work. They weren’t alive. She sincerely wanted to rewrite her husband’s movie script to its full potential, but at this moment, it was stilted. Only later would I learn

more about the context of their partnership – how George was a genius concerned with the theme of machines and technology, and Marcia was the humanistic side, focused on telling a meaningful story that would resonate with the audience. I did not know it then, but she was here, basically, trying to save the script.

I decided to be frank with her.

“First, the story is not archetypal,” I said. “The author doesn’t know the true nature and value of the characters he is set on gluing together.”

Marcia began writing down notes quickly in her notebook.

“The dialogue is unreal and trite. It serves only one purpose – to move to the next scene. So, the message of the story happens in the action between scenes.”

She nodded, writing.

I continued. “There is no character development. No one will identify with these characters.”

Then, on a positive note, I said, “However, your husband has tapped into the true spiritual reality of our time. His obsession to see the world through the eyes of two robots is genius, but a little confused. We can work with that.”

Since everyone there, including Marcia, was a student of Anthroposophy, I began to do what Werner knew would come naturally to me as both a teacher and a student – apply the principles that I had studied to our current problem with the script.

“George has described the challenge of our times,” I said, “The war with machines, symbolized in the two robot playmates of Luke Starkiller.”

Now, an interesting side note about the names. Like Luke Starkiller, none of the character’s names that Marcia read to us were in their final form. In fact, I later recommended that the hero, Luke Starkiller, be changed to “Luke Skywalker,” from American Indian and Tibetan traditions. Then, since Lucas is the name for “light,” I also had the concept of a light saber, a weapon that both defends as a shield and attacks as a formidable force. (In Anthroposophist terms, the light saber represents the human spinal column.)

Those details would come later. Now, we had to focus on shaping the story itself.

“I think it needs to go back to the concept of a fairy tale,” I said, explaining that all fairy tales begin with a reference of the story being outside of time and space and end with some reference to their own continuance. “I think what you may want is an adult science-fiction fairy tale that is spiritually accurate, yet engrossing and interesting.”

Marcia agreed.

With her input, we decided to begin with Luke Starkiller. We tried to describe his character development in terms of the polarity that every person has in their soul – the left and right-hand paths of evil. In the end, it is the middle path, “the Force,” that the Jedi warrior should choose. Yet, without exploring both the left and right paths, the Jedi is weakened by not knowing his enemy.

“So, each movie goer will be faced with making the same decision, no matter what their life is like?” said one of the students.

“Yes, that’s the path of most fairy tales,” I said. The question is: “Which of the three paths will you choose?”

Here again, I was impressed with George Lucas’ brilliance. His obsession with machines underscored the biggest challenge of our age – the right-hand path of mechanical occultism as described by Rudolph Steiner and the left-hand path of thinking that has turned evil. Had I seen his first film, THX-1138, I would have recognized this even more clearly.

“The two robots can represent thinking and willing,” I proposed.

As the heroes of George’s original story, both C3PO and R2D2 enable the audience to “see through the eyes of machines.” In his relationship and interactions with them, Luke uses his robots to enhance his thinking (C3PO) and willing (R2D2) in an age of machines, but finally finds the middle path – of feeling.

“Let’s explore the two extremes: the left-hand path of thinking and the right-hand path of willing,” I said.

We spent time talking it through. Both C3PO and the Evil Emperor are on the left-hand path of “thinking” that has turned evil. For example, C3PO can think but cannot act, and the Emperor needs Darth Vader to carry out his desired actions. In contrast, R2D2 and Darth Vader are on the right-hand path of “willing.” Having the capacity to will, they still must be told what to do.

“Darth Vader is the being we know as Ahriman,” I added. “He represents the composite cleverness of all machines, incarnated into a human being.”

“So, what about a middle path? Is there one?” one of the students asked.

“Excellent question,” I said. “The middle path is what both the right-hand and left-hand paths miss. Unable to understand the middle path, both sides seek to destroy it. The Jedi masters such as Obi-Wan Kenobi and Yoda have developed themselves on the middle path, having already mastered the other two paths. They represent the desired balanced center between the two extremes.”

Indeed, this dynamic of two poles of evil is the central motif of the first Star Wars trilogy.

Master of the machines

Once we understood the story in context of this Anthroposophical framework, the next step was to focus further on Luke’s character.

“I think that Luke needs to develop his character by interacting with the two robots, both the left and the right hand,” I said.

We then discussed each robot.

As a robot on the “thinking” side, C3PO can speak many languages and is programmed for etiquette and translating, a truly inspired use for machines that we seldom see. He represents an evil that has been around as long as languages in every culture since the beginning of human intellectual development – the being named Lucifer, who incarnated in a physical body in China in 2000 BC. As the “left-hand path of evil,” Lucifer is a Promethean archetype who brings fire, language, philosophy, writing and culture to humanity. Chained to a mountain, he suffered each day as a vulture ate out his liver until rescued by Heracles. By representing Lucifer/Prometheus, C3PO would serve as a counter-pole for the incarnation four thousand years later in 2000 AD of Ahriman, the king of machines, otherwise known as Darth Vader.

Luke, who models the original Heracles or the hero in all of us, eventually breaks the chains to free Prometheus, the fire-bringer, who is on the left-hand path. So, too, the Evil Emperor in Star Wars represents the power of fire (demonstrated as lightning from his hands and the evil wisdom of the Sith) that increasingly consumes him as he misuses it.

“Luke is situated between the two robots, between the two paths, like his twin sister. His lost spirituality is drawing him upward into spirit,” I said.

All Jedi warriors have transformed blood, what was later called “midi-chlorians” in the blood. As they balance the forces of the left and right paths, they raise their consciousness, which then increases spiritual potential in the blood, a process that Steiner calls the “etherization of the blood.” As Steiner taught, spiritual people charge their blood with a consciousness that connects them to spirit (the Force). However, unlike the movie, the ability to access spirit or the Force isn’t passed along through heredity.

So, after discussing all of these concepts and laying the groundwork for common understanding, here is the story of Star Wars that we mapped out:

Once upon a time, in a galaxy far, far away, Luke Skywalker (the archetypal human) finds his life embroiled, if not consumed, by machines. Luke is the master of those machines, because he has consciousness and, therefore, is pulled by the left and right. He is an orphan, as all modern humans find themselves, and knows that something great lives inside of him. He has hope in a hopeless world.

Luke’s father has fallen prey to the evil right-hand path of machines that has transformed him into a part-man – part machine abomination who wars against his own spirit and wishes to dominate the world, even if it means killing his son.

The left-hand path of personal black magic lives in the Evil Emperor who also wishes to kill all Jedi and, most especially, the son of Darth Vader.

Luke is protected by the humble Jedi, Obi-Wan Kenobi. Eventually, this Jedi leads him to his teacher of the “middle way” (the Force) and sacrifices himself so that he can help him from the spiritual world. This middle path is like the path to the Higher Self.

On the path, just like Dorothy on the Yellow Brick Road, Luke gains some traveling companions. Just as the Wizard of Oz was a distillation of Masonic initiation rituals, Star Wars introduces the audience to parts of the soul. This is necessary to make the story archetypal, so that it will always be fresh.

For example, Obi-One Kenobi represents the highest of the three parts of the soul, the consciousness soul, which merges spirit with matter just as his Jedi powers give him the power of mind over matter.

Chewbacca represents the lower soul, the sentient or astral soul that must turn the animal in us into a human with spiritual characteristics.

Han Solo represents the intellectual soul that first begins to awaken to higher thinking. Although clever, Hans lacks the ability to see the big picture like Obi-One.

Between Luke’s three companions, much like the Lion, Tin Man, and Scarecrow, each contributes a special quality to Luke along the way. Steiner calls these soul qualities “thinking, feeling and willing.”

At the center of the story, Luke represents the ego, or the thinking human being, and must master the three steps of the development of the soul.

A return to spirit

Now that we had built the underlying framework, which was the most Herculean part of our task, it was clear to me that we needed to develop these characters into archetypes. Knowing now what motivated each character, we could easily hear the words that each would naturally say and even envision their realistic reactions to the unfolding plot.

In doing so, we kept in mind a fundamental truth: good and evil are choices. The Evil Emperor and Darth Vader were not born evil; they chose their own paths. Luke, the archetypal human, also must make his choices and live with the good or evil that results.

Still, after all of this work we had done, one thing was missing.

“We still have one problem,” I reminded Marcia. “Where is Luke going in the story?”

Sorely missing in the original version of the story, this issue had to be resolved so that everything else would make sense.

“Isn’t Luke, essentially, the prodigal son?” I said. Others agreed that Luke was separated from his parent’s home and longing to return. This is a universal element with which everyone could identify. Like Luke, each of us has our particular destiny. In our life, we embark on the search to find it and return to our kingdom in the spirit.

We further developed Luke’s direction and role in the story as follows:

Luke knows he is special but doesn’t know why. Throughout the story, he must evolve into his mission of facing his true identity as Darth Vader’s son, accept it, and decide what to do with it.

Ultimately, Luke denies the power of the machines that try to gain control over him. Instead of the cold-hearted machine-human hybrids, Luke chooses love. He must come to this awakening only after receiving help from his companions.

His sister Leia (who I suggested should be called Maya) represents his spiritual self. Although first drawn to her through physical desire, Luke transforms this attraction into spiritual love and links his destiny to hers, as the soul links to the spirit.

More sure about herself, Leia has been treated like the Princess she is. Luke has struggled to “catch up” to where she was, but in the end, their destinies are permanently entwined. Because he is on the spiritual path of self- development versus the physical path of earthly gratification, Luke doesn’t “win the girl” – that part of the story is left to another character, Han Solo.

As part of his journey, Luke uses the middle path of the Force to conquer both the Evil Emperor and Darth Vader. The more the left and right-hand paths try to win Luke, the more they fall prey to the side effects of using evil for personal gain.

As the modern human, Luke conquers the evil machine- like foes with help from his companions and develops two powerful “forces” that the machines cannot control: human freedom and love. In this way, Luke learns to “see through the eyes of machines.” He even sacrifices his human hand for denying his father’s attempt to win him over to the Dark Side of the machines.

In the end, Luke loves his father and witnesses the death of Darth Vader, Ahriman, before his very eyes.

This is the same modern challenge that each of us faces: Who is your parent?

What do you choose: the physical world of machines or the middle path of the spirit, the Force?

MikeL

Social climber
Southern Arizona
Jan 26, 2017 - 07:24am PT
Without a top or bottom, left or right, spiritual or material, right or wrong, there can be no “middle path.” All these polarities are simply ways of talking, presenting narratives and beliefs (rbord), most of which appear to be inculcated into consciousness (ala, archetypes, institutionalizations, socializations, etc.). They are “fearful symmetries” (Blake), without which one might truly see what and how things are.

First we learn; then we must unlearn.
MikeL

Social climber
Southern Arizona
Jan 26, 2017 - 09:19pm PT
Not one person responded to the “Blake bait.” No one has a comment on the idea of a fearful symmetry? Are we all too scientifically oriented? Must all symmetries be beautiful and embodiment of the truth? Has no one an appreciation for Blake?

If all you can argue for are the superficialities of issues, then there is no “there” there.
jgill

Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
Jan 26, 2017 - 09:26pm PT
Red John was red in tooth and possessed fearful symmetry. In the end he was not there, his mysterious absence more profound than his empty shell.
MH2

Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
Jan 27, 2017 - 09:08pm PT
No one has a comment on the idea of a fearful symmetry?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EkB__abaZk&index=42&list=PL-a9CtRBzAKITCJLXCEEaz6J9hg0ZSGB0
MikeL

Social climber
Southern Arizona
Jan 27, 2017 - 09:17pm PT
What are YOUR thoughts and feelings? Got any you can call your own on the matter?
paul roehl

Boulder climber
california
Jan 27, 2017 - 11:36pm PT
Not one person responded to the “Blake bait.” No one has a comment on the idea of a fearful symmetry? Are we all too scientifically oriented? Must all symmetries be beautiful and embodiment of the truth? Has no one an appreciation for Blake?

Fearful symmetries are but the sublime affects of being to which we are compelled to seek reconciliation. Choose your poison: religion, science or Derrida. The paradox is simple: that which is fearful is also beautiful, whether it's the inappropriate distance between bolts bestowing ecstasy to the fearful yet bold climber or the distasteful acceptance of the horrific monster of mortality which ultimately only brings us bliss. All symmetries are finally beautiful, though like death, they may appear monstrous until they arrive.
MikeL

Social climber
Southern Arizona
Jan 28, 2017 - 07:41am PT
:-) Nice.
WBraun

climber
Jan 28, 2017 - 07:44am PT
All symmetries are finally beautiful

Yes .... shows the "Absolute Truth" .....
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Jan 28, 2017 - 07:44am PT

jogill

climber
Colorado
Jan 28, 2017 - 12:22pm PT
Perhaps Ed can tell us if there are fearful symmetries in physics?

Offhand, I can't think of any in math, but there probably are.

Sycorax, in literature?

;>)
jgill

Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
Jan 28, 2017 - 01:56pm PT
OK, jogill can't hack it, but there is at least one example of fearful symmetry in mathematics: Catastrophe Theory.

Think of a German shepherd, still and quiet, watching a stranger approach. At some point the dog will either become submissive or attack with fury. That's the catastrophe point where the fearful symmetry shifts.

. . . the distasteful acceptance of the horrific monster of mortality which ultimately only brings us bliss

Huh?
MikeL

Social climber
Southern Arizona
Jan 28, 2017 - 03:07pm PT
Jogill: Offhand, I can't think of any in math, but there probably are.

Any equation. The left hand side of the equation is balanced with that on the right, isn’t it? That’s a symmetry.

Anything that “comes together” into some seeming understandable finality presents a fearful symmetry. When the bad person in the narrative gets his due, when the good guy wins, when cause seems to lead to effect, then a fearful symmetry is presented. The idea that things always balance out (“as they should”), that too is a symmetry. Even ironies are balanced.

I know this will probably sounds blasphemous to anyone in a technical field of study, but balance, symmetries, having things make sense, *laws* of the universe, the belief in cause-and-effect are all (in this mind, anyway) idyllic, pollyanna notions that give us comfort. It’s nice to know that everything *must* finally make sense (even if we can’t explain how it makes sense). This is what is “fearful” about symmetries. The belief in them lulls us to sleep.

Things can be ok (fine, actually) without symmetries, balance, laws, even cause-and-effect.

Mind-at-work.
jgill

Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
Jan 28, 2017 - 04:00pm PT
Any equation. The left hand side of the equation is balanced with that on the right, isn’t it? That’s a symmetry

Only fearful to low performing algebra students, however.

;>)
MH2

Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
Jan 28, 2017 - 05:22pm PT
Blake was taken by contradiction


So was Suhl:


Tower, tower, in the sky,
How can they call thee Symmetry
When all thine blocks are awry?

Ode to the Tetons
Claude Suhl
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