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wack-N-dangle
Gym climber
the ground up
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Oct 22, 2009 - 01:29am PT
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I may be incorrect. These statements are my memory of anecdotes from the popular media.
Music in all cultures is based largely on the range (octaves?)of the human voice.
There is a part of the brain that is stimulated when practicing deep meditation (Maybe emptiness?) Largo? It has been found that this area is related to happiness, and is more active in people that have practiced meditation.
Recently, scientists have proposed a "god" region of the brain.
http://www.livescience.com/culture/090309-brain-religion.html
I don't know whether these regions are exclusive, and I am probably falsely assuming that the "god" region is excited when people experience religious zeal. In contrast, it seems that there are practices which emphasize a grounded clarity. From my understanding, this belief system proposes that there is no god. It would be remarkable if science shows these brain regions are exclusive of each other, but common across groups of people.
After reading the link above, maybe it is more simply a question language, and where we "see" goodness extending from.
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donald perry
Trad climber
kearny, NJ
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Oct 22, 2009 - 01:35am PT
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One thing we all know is what is perfection, what is holiness. And someone has shown us that much, and of that man wishes to be blind as he seeks to hide from the presence of God as did Adam, this we do know. True love, true faith, true honesty, true goodness, true justice. One thing we do know is that we are sinners, we do know that much, God has shown us that much. There is no sound reasoning against that.
Being that is the case, that there is good and evil, men ought to serve true goodness and true love as a God regardless. But men love to follow their own ways and will naturally follow the evil, and what can be defined as Satan. Satan apposed God and seeks to usurp His authority, this is what man naturally does. I am speaking in absolutes here foremost.
We also know that we will all die soon, relatively speaking life is very short. But we like to forget that too. Unfortunatly there is no logical argument against that either. At that time men will give an account to God. Those who have chosen to reject and ignore the good and the light shown them, to follow the evil, will be excluded from the presence of God. And this will be done to them as they so wished, to spend the rest of eternity with the devil and his angels. And even in this God will be glorified, every knee will bow and every tongue should confess Jesus is Lord to the Glory of God. Those in the heavens above and those under the earth beneath. And that is just the way it is, was, and will be, all the arguing in the world can not change it.
Yet God has given his only begotten Son, that whomsoever should believe in Him should not perish but have true life, life with God for eternity. And this is something not earned by good works. It comes about through clinging to Christ in faith, in Christ’s atonement for our sin. I am speaking of that sin that we as men are all aware of, that we are all aware that we have from Adam. Or that sin that we have become willfully blind to.
I came to these conclusions by force through soloing Erect Direction in the Gunks back in September 1979. I did not make it and had to be rescued between cruxes. They are logical conclusions. You will find out they are true shortly. Whether you want to believe them now or later, that is up to you.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Oct 22, 2009 - 01:39am PT
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we know that that is what you believe, Donald, and thanks for your concern...
"i'm the one that has to die
when it's time for me to die,
so let me live my life
the way i want to."
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 22, 2009 - 01:41am PT
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so let me live my life
the way i want to."
But have no independence. You are forced.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Oct 22, 2009 - 01:43am PT
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what is independence, Werner?
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 22, 2009 - 01:50am PT
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Free from birth, death, disease, and old age.
The soul is never contaminated by these four predominate factors in it's original condition.
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 22, 2009 - 01:54am PT
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It has been seen that the prisoner who ultimately has not finished his term still after being released goes back to prison under his own terms to finish his real sentence.
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jstan
climber
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Oct 22, 2009 - 01:56am PT
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Werner:
Now I am curious. This essence of the person which has absolute freedom.
Is it also free from the sensation of drawing in a breath of cool clean fresh air?
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 22, 2009 - 02:03am PT
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And they said there's no consciousness. Only chemicals and electricity.
This is what they told his daughter, and she looked at the strange men and smiled for she knew they were right in their mundane way ...
But they failed to see that she also loved him for who is and that he was full of life and honored death.
The mundane men were stern faced as the child soften their hearts with her smile and steady gaze that transcended beyond their dry __
__
fill in the blank
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 22, 2009 - 02:20am PT
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jstan -- "Is it also free from the sensation of drawing in a breath of cool clean fresh air?"
And in the next instant the sensation will be to draw in the putrid stench of industrialization.
The equipoised learn man will know they are both one and the same although two different.
acintya-bheda-abheda tattva; simultaneous oneness and difference
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TripL7
Trad climber
'dago'
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Oct 22, 2009 - 02:34am PT
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Dr.F. "has there ever been an intervention by God?"
YES!! He intervened in my life at the age of 8 years old as previously shared earlier in this post and many times since. Thank you.
And just for the record when was evolution deemed to no longer to be taught as a theory and declared a law of nature along side gravity in our fine schools here in the USA or anywhere else for that matter?
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Oct 22, 2009 - 02:38am PT
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Evolution is considered by biologists to be the fundamental principal of biology. Without evolution there is no modern biology.
This seems to have escaped the notice of those people who oppose the teaching of evolution because it is in conflict with their religious beliefs.
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TripL7
Trad climber
'dago'
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Oct 22, 2009 - 02:54am PT
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Ed- the question i posed was when was it "considered to be the fundamental principal of biology" and no longer a "theory". And why didn't they declare it as such from the get go?
Evidently, all biologist are then 'fundamentalist' also!
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jstan
climber
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Oct 22, 2009 - 02:57am PT
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Ed:
Along those lines I recently ran into a DVD by Dawkins discussing Evolutionary Psychology with Prof. Bass. It was my first exposure. It certainly seems that groups of people developed selected behavior traits as a group. If so that means we finally have a definition for abnormal psychology.
Behavior traits or psychology is abnormal when it does not support survival of the group.
I am not describing it knowledgeably but this pretty clearly has huge implications.
777:
You are struggling with the words. You are giving the word "theory" an incorrect meaning.
A scientific theory is just one of those models about which I have been mumbling. As Ed has said a theory or model under active improvement will change and improve. We have no final immutable theories.
And when Ed says a model or theory is "fundamental" he means only that many of the other biological models all use the evolutionary model as one of their tools for reaching conclusions. They need the evolutionary model.
For instance in cancer research we need to know how it is that a normal cell can become cancerous. This happens because a mutation or improper duplication happens within the DNA. These mutations form one of the fundamental driving forces in evolution and over geologic time can cause huge effects among organisms. But on the shorter time scale damaging mutations can cause cancer and death of the individual.
It is not quite that simple as evidence is accumulating suggesting chemicals, such as lead, that we are putting into the environment are agents causing some unusual mutations. "Better living through chemistry" may not be turning out to be quite what we thought it.
Thanks to the birth of DNA sequencing technology one of the more interesting lines of study over the last decade involves looking at actual DNA sequences over time that have not been affected by abnormal agents. Under normal conditions they are able to quantify about how many DNA base pairs change in a period of time. Then they can sequence the DNA for two different animals, say, and estimate how many millions of years might have been required to produce that change. For instance this has been used to estimate how long it might take to change skin color.
Another really interesting idea involves the fact that many of the base pairs in DNA don't serve any obvious function. But it is beginning to look like their presence works to reduce the effects of damaging mutations. If this is true even their presence is nicely explained by Master Darwin's incredible genius.
These methods have a long way to go but the potential is fascinating.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Oct 22, 2009 - 03:01am PT
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"why didn't they declare if from the get go?"
you seemed to have missed a lot of what we've been talking about in this thread regarding science. Even Darwin proposed that evolution had to be tested, and that if it's predictions were not found to be in agreement with observation, then it would not have been correct.
Had that happened, we wouldn't be talking about it now... they didn't know at the "get go." It was going to require a lot of scientific research.
When did this happen? I'm not sure, but certainly the understanding of the mechanism of genetics was the last major prediction to fall into place... perhaps a biologist could inform us on this point?
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Oct 22, 2009 - 03:09am PT
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Where is Stephen Jay Gould, when you need him?
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Oct 22, 2009 - 03:28am PT
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From the perspective of matter-energy, however, the universe maintains its boundaries in that it has a beginning and end at the big bang and big crunch. From the conceptual vantage point of humanity, one may conceive of the universe as beginning and ending, as having edges and boundaries, and a creator. But in imaginary time, the universe is eternity and eternity is the constant always of the universe. The universe has no beginning, no end and no creator; in imaginary time, the universe is Being.
Gettign back to my question: what is the fundamantal natrue of this "being?"
JL
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jstan
climber
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Oct 22, 2009 - 03:29am PT
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Jaybro.
Careful now or I will punctuate your equilibrium.
John:
Unfortunately in the last few years the really distant survey of, I believe Type II supernovae, have indicated the expansion of the universe is accelerating not decelerating. "Dark Energy" is being mumbled but there will be some hand waving for a few more years.
But it does appear there may never be a big crunch.
The universe may ultimately become thin and very lonely.
The best times of all are when there is a lot of hand waving. People tend to sit on the front edges
of their seats at the meetings.
I think one of the best science stories ever, involved some of Feynman's Sum of Histories diagrams. There was huge argument over what these particular diagrams meant until someone, (I'll just put in Weinberg's name) stood up and said, "No! No! This is what Feynman was trying to say."
Feynman was sitting right there beside him!
777:
You must have missed my post just upthread.
There is nothing higher than a theory. Theories just keep getting better and better.
There is no "absolute truth" allowing measurements to infinite precision.
Not in this world.
You work out a theory/model that is correct to a billionth of a centimeter. Next day someone has made a measurement to a precision of a trillionth of a centimeter and they want to know what's wrong with your model.
Hey. That's life in this world.
PS:
Not becoming full time climber was probably the best decision I ever made.
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TripL7
Trad climber
'dago'
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Oct 22, 2009 - 03:42am PT
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Ed- I returned to college in the Spring of 1992 (after dropping out of SDSU many years ago) and pursued a degree in the sciences. Earned a B.S. degree in Occupational Therapy June 1995. I am now a practicing, licensed therapist ( OTR/L) and I am very thankful for the advances of science, for I see the out comes on a daily bases (not to disregard hard work and commitment by all those concerned, and faith and prayer). I had to take years of college chemistry, physics, geometry,biology, anatomy,psychology prior to being excepted into the program at SJSU in the fall of 1992. And once being excepted into this program 2.5yr of Neuroanatomy, neurophysiology, abnormal-psychology (many psych and human development classes) etc.,etc. all of which I found fascinating. But never do I recall evolution being declared anything more than a theory! No more no less. But then perhaps I was absent from class that day and subsequently missed that respective question on the following exam.
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TripL7
Trad climber
'dago'
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Oct 22, 2009 - 03:59am PT
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Ed- "perhaps a biologist could inform us on this point?"
Yes! I concur! Let's leave it at that for now!!
Ed- "you seemed to have missed allot of what we have been talking about in this thread regarding science".
My sincere and humble apology in that regard as, I have only joined in this wonderful dialogue most recently. And I will respectively attempt to backtrack and review as much as time allows, but I felt compelled to join in on this very fine discussion and surly take all that is being discussed here very seriously.
PEACE!!!
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