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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
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Jun 21, 2012 - 08:30pm PT
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Nothing seem to happen that ain't happened before
I see it all through flashes of depression
I drop my drink and hit some people running for the door
Gotta make some kind of impression
Cause when I'm disconnected from the driving wheel
I'm only half the man I should be
But metal hitting metal is all I feel
And everything is good as it possibly could be
Crawling from the wreckage, crawling from the wreckage
You'd think by now at least
That half my brain would get the message
Crawling from the wreckage, crawling from the wreckage
Into a brand new car
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RsqClimber
Trad climber
Phoenix, Arizona
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Jun 22, 2012 - 02:19pm PT
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Hi Im late to this but was doing my annual google of Jack Dorn, since he is on our Line of Duty Deaths for Search and Rescue missions. I never could find a pic of him for the annual slide show, but Mark, yours is great and I hope I can have permission to use it.
I ran into a giuy in 2005 who said Jack was to be his best man but didnt show up at the wedding until he found out what happened to Jack. By the time I got free to ask the guy more, he was gone, slo I dont know his name...
Tim Kovacs
"my first rock shoes were kletters, and 6.0 was as high as you could go"
602-819-4066
tkovacs@cox.net
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sidmo
Sport climber
general delivery
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Jun 26, 2012 - 12:02pm PT
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“The crash had huge ramifications on climbing in Yosemite for years after. Just not the ramifications you think about or can see easily”
THAT is the point I tried without success to make to Licky way back when, back when I thought he was writing a comprehensive story as opposed to one that is weighted toward the technical aspects and away from the sociological impacts that resulted from the illicit bonanza. The plane changed the way of life, albeit temporarily, of many Valley residents, both over and underground. It seemed as if everyone had disposable income suddenly, even those who didn’t really know what was happening. Before we had Reagan’s “trickle-down” theory of economics, Yosemite’s post-plane era could have served as a test case for the idea that a rising tide lifts all boats. Not all residents scored $$$ off the event, but enough did to make a noticeable impact on the community, and not just the community of C4 and it’s legendary stonemasters but on regular folks as well. To some degree the C4 community was isolated from the larger community of Y.P.& C. Co. employees although many of us climbed regularly while holding down menial jobs. Licky has cherrypicked his data and I fear the book will suffer from his narrow perspective – there were so many people involved who had no connection to the climbing “scene” but were part of the overall story. But of course Licky knows more about those times than some of us who actually lived through it. One thing’s for sure: he, or anyone else could write a different book based solely on the information on the recent posts here on the thread, and that book would be the biography of The Splitter. Is that dude in love with himself or what? Probably lives in a room full of mirrors. For that matter, Licky probably does as well.
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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Jun 26, 2012 - 12:28pm PT
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Intresting, I guess its equally likely that it had the impact you said but no one wants to admit it now - they have kids, maybe office jobs and of course their legacies. I personally think it would be a very cool story (if true) but can understand people want to disown their pasts now.
Licky would be facing the same dilemma as any author or newspaper reporter. His job is to tell the truth. If it ends up hurting people, you have to balance respecting their privacy, with the value of the story. Just printing negative information about people has no value to the public, but in this case the point is not to hurt anyone but to tell a story that may be central to the development of yosemite climbing. Of course you better know what you're talking about so you don't get sued for defamation. Also should check CA and federal statutes of limtiations for drug trafficking. Hard to imagine anyone could still be prosecuted for this but it should be checked.
I would make a distinction between information someone confided in me, which I would keep confidential, with something I learned on my own. But for second hand info you really have to check the source particularly if the source wants confidentiality.
I heard stories about this many years ago, and think it would be great if licky can cultivate some sources and get the story.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Jun 26, 2012 - 01:17pm PT
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Why don't you write your own book sidmo?
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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
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Jun 26, 2012 - 01:49pm PT
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Yeah Freddie is my son, I taught him to shoot the long ball. Couldnt' get on board with fBrown though.
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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
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Jun 26, 2012 - 11:00pm PT
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Well I probably wouldn't know a cyber savage from Spider Sabich, unless of course it bit me, but you got me to thinking. I'm thinking now it was a daughter Sweet Georgia (swBrown) that was my child (no ordinary love child by any means) and that Freddie was actually my brother. Don't hold me to it though.
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sidmo
Sport climber
general delivery
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Jun 27, 2012 - 02:05am PT
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Well, DP & JB, if this was my project, I’d not have the guts to do it as nonfiction, or even as creative nonfiction, which is what I am trained for – I have to admire that about Licky . . . I recommended that this story was more easily told (and sold) as a fiction piece, you know – the kind of novel that is “based on fact” – and yeah, that is a real wussed-out way to cheese on the hard part, which of course is verification and ramifications of same – if Licky pulls this off (despite my tone I AM pulling for him to finish and prove me wrong) he will have done something substantial – but he steps on toes and the occasional entire foot in his zeal to curry favor with some participants here on the thread – that’s all legitimate journalism, but he broadcasts his cliquishness instead of playing his hand close to his vest – I and others he pillioried should never have been aware of the fact that he discounts the opinions we shared for no benefit to ourselves (those hollow accusations of us wanting our “15 minutes of fame” are so baseless that they make him appear to be drowning in his own desire for notoriety) – we offered help to a stranger and got called liars for our trouble, not cool – hopefully he’s learning the folly of his ways and will be the better journalist for it – he should thank us all for our input and leave his comments unstated – that would be professional and courteous – as a journalist he should never take sides publicly – all the more reason to write it up as fiction – since he IS opinionated it would afford him the opportunity to call things as he sees them – he’s doing that now, and it is undermining his credibility as a journalist – if he doesn’t like that label, then again, he should write it as fiction
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sidmo
Sport climber
general delivery
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Jun 27, 2012 - 02:43am PT
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good luck selling that story of an individual plane that sailed off an assembly line in some factory somewhere - pilots, airplane mechanics, aviation nuts . . . whoops, just ran out of customers, err readers -
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sidmo
Sport climber
general delivery
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Jun 27, 2012 - 01:04pm PT
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Hell no, I don’t think there are more climbing readers than flying readers – never said that – if Licky delves into too much detail about brands of carabiners or how to best lace up your EBs the book won’t be a success either – like most things, the solution is in the middle someplace – and I know about pilots and airplane enthusiasts, my dad was a flight instructor, a captain in the army air corps and a member of AOPA – when I grew up we owned a series of light aircraft, the last one a twin engine 5 seater Piper Apache, so I know a bit about the flying scene and the climbing scene – I learned to pilot a plane before I even went to driver’s education and got my ground pilot liscence – but that said, I still think there will be little interest from the general public in a book about a machine, albeit a flying machine – stories that sell are generally about people, not things
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Licky
Mountain climber
California
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 30, 2012 - 12:35am PT
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The purpose of me collecting stories and writing this book is not for notoriety or for money. After hearing so many of the stories that surrounded this event and knowing that most were purely fictitious, I decided to set things straight. I really don't care about whether or not a book is sold nor care about a market for the book. The story needs to be told with as much fact as can be gleaned from records, documents, and substantiated interviews.
Sidmo flips and flops back and forth about how I’m going to tarnish the reps of the climbing crowd and how it really was. I’m not going to use names. The stories are more important than who said what. Many of those that have granted me interviews have asked me not to identify them, yet they still want to tell their stories. I have agreed to not name them.
What pisses off sidmo is that I don’t believe him. And so he rants. Whether he was there or not is not important since I’m not interested in names, only stories. His stories are of the bland and not worthy of mention. Ya think that sidmo wants his fame?
Sidmo..you are not consistant in your rant...but you do rant.
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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
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Jun 30, 2012 - 12:40am PT
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Good for you ric, as I've said before, I'll certainly read it. Riding, wrenching, writing.
EDIT: Whoops - reading!
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Licky
Mountain climber
California
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 30, 2012 - 12:47am PT
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Z..I certainly understand the wrenching part...good luck...ride safe
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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
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Jun 30, 2012 - 12:57am PT
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That's Robert Pirsig - author of Zen and the Art of Motorcylce Maintenance, a primer on value and why folks write (and I guess read) books.
I admire your persistance.
What a long strange trip it will have been.
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sidmo
Sport climber
general delivery
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Phuck you Licky – you are entitiled to your own opinions, but NOT your own facts. That you set up yourself as arbiter of truth, and decide without counsel of experts as to what is “true” is what I have a problem with, not that you don’t value my judgments. You aren’t qualified to read my mind nor anyone else’s. Add to that the fact that you now say that you will use no names – like I said, write your fantasy as fiction acehole! Anything you write now will be tainted with your confession to protect the names. If you’re going to spin the yarn to your fit own opinion, why pretend to be objective? If the deep thinkers here can’t wrap their minds around that, and believe Licky that I somehow desire fame from my input, then I can only ask: if I wanted notoriety, why would I remain anonymous? Do you believe that at the end of all this acrimony I’ll raise my hand and identify myself? Yet I’d have to do that to actually gain fame, no?
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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
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Well all right. Truth be told, I was the only passenger on that ill-fated flight who survived after parachuting to safety. Of course I want to see the book come out without my true name being dropped.
All these wannabe drug dealers who scrambled up to the lake to scavenge on our lost cargo were so far off base that my associates and I nearly died laughing when we heard what they were doing. If they'd had an ounce, kilo, or perhaps a ton of sens(imilla) they would have gotten their own ship, plane, monument, notepads, farm, canning factory, ... and got into some real money making.
Everybody's just standing 'round 'neath the trees,
Feeding pigeons on a limb
But when Quinn the Eskimo gets here,
them pigeons gonna go to him.
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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Dude I would trade this lawyer job for the toilet cleaning job in Yosemite.
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lostinshanghai
Social climber
someplace
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Sidmo: you wrote a few posts back:
“I cleaned busses, toilets in the rear, but for YTS, not curry – teamster job, good wages and 5pm to 1 am shift – left every day open to climb til evening – I ain’t ashamed of that, dude – were you making up beds for Ma Curry? Oh well, at least you weren’t tray scrounging in the lodge caf . . . or were you?”
And then this recent post: “Well, DP & JB, if this was my project, I’d not have the guts to do it as nonfiction, or even as creative nonfiction, which is what I am trained for”
Trained for what?
One of your comrades said you actually did write, took some time but found this one on Google. So guess you have written an article or like you say “which is what I am trained for”
copyright@sidmo: sport climber, general delivery YNP; courtesy of DNC Parks & Resorts at Yosemite, Inc. (DNC), an affiliate of Delaware North Companies formally known as Y.P.& C. Co. [Yosemite Park and Curry Co.].
How to Clean Toilets on Medium to Large Transportation Vehicles
The primary thing to keep in mind when you’re cleaning a toilet is that you’re not merely trying to make it look nice, as you might when dusting a lamp. You’re cleaning it for health reasons, and that takes more effort than dusting a lamp.
Table of Contents:
[A] Quick and Easy
A Proper Toilet Cleaning
[C] For That Deep Down Clean Toilet Feeling
There are three approaches:
[A] Quick and Easy
Tools:
Toilet Brush
Scrub brush or wash cloth.
Disinfectant Sprays
Toilet Cleaner
Rubber Gloves
Instructions:
1. Open the windows and door and turn on the fan – you’re ventilating Transit Bus or similar vehicle so you don’t choke on the fumes from your cleaners.
2. Flush the toilet to wet the sides of the bowl.
3. Squirt some liquid toilet cleaner up under the rim, all the way around the bowl and let it start running down the sides.
4. Swab the interior of the bowl with the toilet brush, getting up under the rim and putting a little more elbow grease into cleaning the area at the water line.
5. Flush the toilet. As the incoming water rinses the bowl, swirl the toilet brush to rinse it.
6. Use another brush or a wash cloth to wash the underside of the seat, the top of the seat, and the exterior of the toilet.
7. Allow the whole thing to drip dry.
Now, how about putting one of those continual cleaner devices in the tank? Not such a terrific idea. All you’ll get with them is cleaner water that may be colored blue, and that does not, on its own, clean toilet bowls. Moreover, if you should drink out of the toilet, that tank tablet could prove poisonous.
A Proper Toilet Cleaning
Tools:
Goggles or glasses to protect your eyes from chemicals and splatters.
Stiff bristle brush with a storage container to put it in when you’re done. Brush and bristles should be all-plastic; twisted wire brushes can scratch your toilet and permanently damage it.
Rubber gloves.
Paper towels for cleaning the exterior of the toilet. Never use a sponge.
A sponge can end up anywhere in the rear of the bus, and you never know whether it’s been used on the toilet.
Non-abrasive cleanser. A powdered cleanser provides enough abrasion for scrubbing but not enough to scratch.
Spray cleaner.
Pumice stone.
Bleach spray. Bleach is a major pollutant, so use it for sterilizing only when there is a communicable illness in the surrounding area that may involve diarrhea or vomiting.
Instructions:
1. Open the windows and door and turn on the fan – you’re ventilating the vehicle {bus] you don’t choke on the fumes from your cleaners.
2. Remove all items on the tank, remove lid covers, rubber mats around the base of the toilet, and anything else nearby.
3. Put the lid down, then flush.
4. Sprinkle cleanser all around the bowl, as close to the rim as possible.
5. With your eye protection on, grab your brush and begin brushing the bowl from the top down. Scrub under the rim first, then the bowl, and, finally, the trap or hole at the bottom of the commode.
6. Where there are stubborn stains, use the pumice stone to rub them out; make sure the stone is wet to avoid scratching.
7. Swish the brush around to rinse it.
8. Put the lid down, but with the brush under it to drain off excess water, and flush. Never let powdered cleansers sit in the bowl; they can accumulate at the bottom.
9. Spray the exterior of the toilet with your cleaning spray starting at the top and working down.
10. Using several sheets of paper towels, wipe down the tank, starting at the top, being sure to get the handle, and then wipe the outside of the lid.
11. Wipe down the entire bowl area – sides, front, and where the toilet meets the floor.
12. Raise the seat, remove your brush, and put it away.
13. Spray the seat, inside lid, and rim with cleaner and then wipe clean with paper towels, starting at the lid, then the seat, and ending with the rim. If you see urine stains, degreaser products like Greased Lightening will bring them to the surface for cleaning.
14. Make sure you hit the area behind the hinges next to the tank. This area gets particularly filthy.
15. Toss out the used paper towels. You’re done.
[C] For That Deep Down Clean Toilet Feeling
Tools:
Rubber or vinyl work gloves
Eye Protection
Disinfectant/detergent/cleaner (any chemical that calls itself a disinfectant and has an E.P.A. number on the label to back up the claim of being a disinfectant)
Disposable toweling or launder able cloth
Bowl Swab (12″ long plastic handle with “bunny tail” material at the end approximately 4″ in diameter)
Acid (if you have hard water deposits)
Bucket
White vinegar
Plunger
Small mirror
Black light
Instructions:
1. Open the windows and door and turn on the fan – you’re ventilating the vehicle so you don’t choke on the fumes from your cleaners.
2. Put on your gloves and safety glasses.
3. Using a disinfectant/detergent cleaner, mixed either in a spray bottle or in a bucket (according to label instructions), spray or wipe down all hard surfaces outside the bowl, particularly high touch areas like the seat and flush handle.
4. To disinfect the surfaces, they must remain wet for ten minutes, unless the label instructions state otherwise; this completely kills bacteria, fungi, and viruses.
5. Flush the toilet, and rinse its outer surfaces.
6. Lower the water line in the toilet; there are at least 4 different ways to accomplish this:
Push the bowl swab in and out of the hole at the bottom of the toilet quickly until the water level drops into the trap.
Quickly pour about 1.5 gallons of water from a bucket into the toilet.
Turn the water to the toilet off and flush the toilet.
Use a toilet plunger to force the water down and out of the trap.
7. Spray the inside surfaces of the toilet bowl to totally disinfect the toilet; the surface must remain wet for ten minutes unless stated otherwise on the label.
8. Apply a disinfectant or detergent cleaner or bowl cleaner to a toilet bowl swab.
9. Starting under the rim and working down, clean the bowl.
10. If there are tough stains on the bowl, apply a small amount of bowl cleaner to the stain or apply bowl cleaner to the swab and rest it on top of the stain. Hard, stubborn stains can be removed with a pumice stick.
11. A small mirror can be used to look under the rim to detect any stubborn stains you have missed that may also be contributing to malodors.
12. To clean toilets where hard water has left mineral deposits, use a pumice stone.
13. If the going is too slow going using just the pumice stone and water, add one of the following cleaning solutions:
Citric acid is okay for mild deposits because, while it’s the slowest of any of the solutions to remove minerals, it’s safest to use.
Phosphoric acid is good on heavier deposits and not as caustic as muriatic acid or hydrochloric acid.
Where hard water conditions are extreme and the toilet has not been cleaned often enough, you will probably have to apply hydrochloric or muriatic acid; this stuff is highly caustic, so make sure you’re protected, that you don’t spill it, and that the room is well ventilated. Also keep it away from chrome fixtures, which it defaces.
14. After the appropriate time, flush the toilet.
15. Wipe dry the outside surfaces, including the toilet seat and handle, with a cloth or a paper towel.
16. If you notice that mold or mildew has formed on the grout around the base of the commode, pour on white vinegar and clean it with a stiff brush.
17. If you want to get really serious – and you have one or more males in the household with bad aim – a fluorescent-type black light will show, after the room lights have been turned off, urine salts and spots missed cleaning in and around toilets. Urine fluorescess a dull yellow under the light.
What I do not understand how did someone like you knowing about flying airplanes ended up cleaning toilets for a living? Think it was written in a Reader’s Digest magazine a few years back did Playboy turn you down?
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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
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^That must have been the manual that fattrad and Boner studied. Has anyone ever seen sidmo and fattrad in a room at the same time? fattrad and Boner?
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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Sidmo you sound crazy.
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