Politapocalypse (U.S. Politics Megathread)

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apogee

climber

Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy

Jan 15, 2016 - 08:36am PT

A Trump nod = Hillary 2016!

crankster

Trad climber

No. Tahoe

Jan 15, 2016 - 08:43am PT

Actually, I think a Cruz nomination would give Hillary a larger win. Hard to find anyone other than evangelicals who will admit to liking him.

John Duffield

Mountain climber

New York

Jan 15, 2016 - 08:50am PT

Looks like Trump Sanders now. Both of them are improving rapidly and their trajectory is up.

Sanders especially. A couple of months ago, he simply looked like an angry old man. Now, he's hitting his stride. Smiling. Confident. My Democratic friends are happy again.

crankster

Trad climber

No. Tahoe

Jan 15, 2016 - 09:08am PT

I prefer Hillary but will happily vote for Bernie. Anyone beats the horrible crop of angry nuts the GOP has offered.

I agree that Trump will be the nominee.

dirtbag

climber

Jan 15, 2016 - 09:18am PT

I think there is a lot of wishful thinking regarding Sanders' chances.

JEleazarian

Trad climber

Fresno CA

Jan 15, 2016 - 09:36am PT

I kept my Insurance plan, I kept my Doctor
so calling Obama a liar is a LIE

Craig, I know you know logic better than that, so the obvious non-sequitur disappoints me.

Markets do a great job for some things. But it is simply not true that a series of individual choices, that all look reasonable to the individual, always produces the best outcome for the group.

I would prefer to live in a city that has a Paris or London style underground. SF has decent public transportation but getting around inside of they city is mostly buses and surface Muni (Bart mainly gets you in and out of the city). So even taking public transportation is just as a slow as a car. Whereas far more of London or Paris is served underground which doesn't suffer from auto congestion. The free market is not going to create this. Just as GM and the free market didn't build our interstate highway system.

August, this argument seems to be blaming the market for failing to give you your preferred mode of transportation. Just because you would prefer living in an urban environment that can support a rapid subway system does not mean that most others would so choose. Unless we "pack 'em in," such a subway system is wildly inefficient and unaffordable. Based on the observed behavior of American consumers, there are not enough that want to be packed in.

No one is saying that government has no role in transportation. What I am saying is that the prevelance of private automobiles reflects rational thought by consumers, given their preferences.

John

JEleazarian

Trad climber

Fresno CA

Jan 15, 2016 - 10:49am PT

The norcal socal bullet train is monumentally stupid. The people who support it do so with other peoples money. Idiots.

I love riding trains, and Fresno would benefit from this, but it is a monumental waste of money. What I find sad, DMT, is that they only think they're supporting it with other people's money. In fact, they're supporting it with our money, that could be put to much better use if, for instance, the state spent it to lower the cost and raise the quality of its system of public higher education.

John

Escopeta

Trad climber

Idaho

Jan 15, 2016 - 10:54am PT

Escopeta: Long ago on ST a conservative poster named Lois liked to deeply, deeply, deeply engage and discuss beliefs & issues. She eventually got banned, despite having a few supporters here. I sure as hell was not one of them.

Thanks Fritz for the context. Does that mean that there should be no real expectation of engaging on beliefs and issues? Particularly if you aren't part of the "Sh@t Show Libtard Drum Circle" as one poster so frankly put it? (a sentiment that's starting to resonate even without the typical idiotic responses)?

Or should I infer that conservatives automatically get banned (which actually might explain a lot) or did this Lois person earn it?

Escopeta

Trad climber

Idaho

Jan 15, 2016 - 10:55am PT

The norcal socal bullet train is monumentally stupid. The people who support it do so with other peoples money. Idiots.

DMT

I have long wondered why there isn't a bullet from LA to Vegas. Seems like the perfect opportunity and would take minimal investment of public funds/resources.

JEleazarian

Trad climber

Fresno CA

Jan 15, 2016 - 11:05am PT

Or should I infer that conservatives automatically get banned (which actually might explain a lot) or did this Lois person earn it?

No, conservatives do not automatically get banned. We're just scarce because of the demographics of who posts on this sort of forum.

I was never clear about what Lois did to get banned, other than annoy people because she was not a climber, and posted opinions that vexed the leftist herd. This is, after all, a climbers' forum, even if it's not exclusively a climbing forum.

Most banning results from disrespectful ad hominem attacks or proliferation of SPAM, vulgarity, or other conduct sufficiently outside the norm that it fits the Potter Stewart definition of pornography: "I know it when I see it."

As for the sniping at you for Loisizing, take it for what they say: you're expressing a contrary opinion.

John

pyro

Big Wall climber

Calabasas

Jan 15, 2016 - 11:16am PT

Donald did a great job last night..

Carson is out the door..

Rubio just needs more time not this election maybe next..

Escopeta ull get banned it happens to the best of us!

Liberals heads are GUNNABLOW!

Escopeta

Trad climber

Idaho

Jan 15, 2016 - 11:18am PT

JEl...

Roger. Appreciate it.

MikeL

Social climber

Seattle, WA

Jan 15, 2016 - 11:30am PT

Another ad hominem.

John M

climber

Jan 15, 2016 - 11:38am PT

the final nail in Lois coffin was her attack of a person on the AA thread. way out of line.

But she was previously banned for basically spamming every thread she entered. Dr. F, a liberal, was also banned for this. Plus personal attacks.

So don't spam the forum with overload so that you dominate too many threads. Its about balance.

Annoying too many people here can get you banned. when threads become about you, then its time to dial it back. Its not that hard. Take your ego out of it. I suppose that is difficult for people. It took me awhile to figure that one out and I still work on it.

JEleazarian

Trad climber

Fresno CA

Jan 15, 2016 - 11:43am PT

Thanks, John M. I wasn't aware of the final Lois issue. You are right -- almost all banning occurs when a thread degenerates into personal attacks by a couple of posters going back and forth against each other -- usually with the intellectual rigor of six-year-olds arguing in a playground. This turns the thread from its topic to one about its posters.

I believe at least one poster (Dave Kos) got the chop (On ST. Thankfully not in life) after starting a thread calling out another poster. If one follows your advice, there should be no problem.

John

John M

climber

Jan 15, 2016 - 11:49am PT

when threads become about you, then its time to dial it back

my own words kind of tickled me. Does this mean we have to ban the people who have appreciation threads? heh heh..

Craig Fry

Trad climber

So Cal.

Jan 15, 2016 - 12:21pm PT

Did you keep your Doctor and Insurance or not John?
Yes or No?

You never answering questions that reveal you as a hypocrite disappoints me,
avoidance is not a part of being truthful

On another point, which Republican Candidate is more truthful than Hillary?

Craig Fry

Trad climber

So Cal.

Jan 15, 2016 - 12:25pm PT

Dr. F, a liberal, was also banned for this. Plus personal attacks.

WRONG
I was banned for asking Admin to Ban The Chief, who was personally attacking everyone.

What personal attacks did I post?

Lois drove everyone mad with her extreme GOP loyalty and right wing judgmental attitude. Like Ann Coulter, just a awful person to debate against.

Getting banned is a difficult process, unless you screw the wrong person at the wrong time.
Complaints about Lois and the Chief went on for years before anything was done, the sh#t show would just go on day after day.
Pages of attacks would happen on a daily occurrence, the good guys attacking back, how else can you topple someone bad, ignore? wrong, you have to attack Hitler, Stalin, any sick troll that wants to dominate.

We would all hope for the axe to fall but it would never happen until major damage had already occurred and people left ST rather than put up with the bad posters.

I would predict, The Chief drove off more posters than anyone else.
He was a sick soul that should never be allowed an audience.

Now new posters get banned because someone thinks they might be Lois in disguise, which is sad.

JEleazarian

Trad climber

Fresno CA

Jan 15, 2016 - 12:42pm PT

Craig, whether you or I keep our doctors (I did, though at greater cost) or plan (I did not, because of greater cost) doesn't make Obama's lie true. "If you like your plan, you can keep your plan" was demonstrably false, because a great many plans were no longer available under the terms of the ACA, and this fact was known to Obama and the administration when he made the statement to the contrary.

Which Republican candidate is more truthful than Hillary? Which candidate, Republican or Democrat, is not more truthful than Hillary? The movement in favor of Bernie demonstrates, in my opinion, the recognition of Democrats that Hillary simply is not trustworthy. Her stonewalling -- a trait she shares with the current administration -- about what was on her private email server is just one piece of evidence of what has been a pattern of misinformation and deceit. She and her super-PAC, disguised as the MSM, can pretend the problems don't exist, but an increasing part of the American public sees the contrary evidence.

Some of what she says can't be taken seriously in any case. She and Bill were dead broke when they left the White House? Monica Lewinsky's allegations were just the conjuring of a vast, right-wing conspiracy? Sending emails to the Egyptian government and Chelsea that the Benghazi attack was a terrorist action while telling the American public and, particularly, the families of those killed that the attack was a spontaneous result of offense taken from an obscure video represents an honest mistake in the fog of events?

All of these lies, together with her demonstrated tendency to break rules when it suits her, don't speak well for the value she places on integrity.

John