Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
|
|
|
Nov 27, 2015 - 08:30am PT
|
From another forum I frequent:
n honor of Thanksgiving, I present to you a very dear family member of mine who is well-known for being wonderful and generous, is an amazing teacher who works with kids all day for sh#t pay, and is all-around fantastic.
Won't vote anything but Republican, has never voted anything other than Republican. Recommended that I, a gay person, submit job applications to the Trump and Rubio campaigns. Is incensed that Hillary Clinton "lied to the American people". Thinks illegal immigrants "just shouldn't break the law" (but would undoubtedly help any of them out if they were actual people she saw in real life in need, instead of just imaginary straw men).
The best part is, she barely has any money saved for retirement, and is basically going to have to live off of Social Security+ex-spouse's pension in a decade or so.
She isn't stupid (is an excellent teacher), and she doesn't lack compassion (the stories I could tell of her self-sacrifice for people are really unbelievable). But I'm dead certain that all of the Republican candidates could say (and some have already said) they personally want to end public schooling and Social Security and deport the very kids she teaches and she would vote for them every time.
Based on my repeated exposure to this person there's two components to her political stance:
1) Identity: Republican = self-reliant, smart, pro-safety, pro-family, pro-America. Nothing can contradict this, ever.
2) Availability heuristic: Somehow, some way (in part because of the Identity thing above) she cannot connect what the GOP says with what will actually happen if they succeed. The policy-reality divide is so great that it simply does not exist. The cognitive dissonance results in truly evil policies like mass deportations or Rubio's "terrorist attacks are good for my campaign moment" being explained away as good for the country or taking things out of context. Only the good things survive the filter. So why wouldn't anyone want to vote Republican?
I hate to say it, because I love this family member a lot, but every time we talk about politics, I remember how truly horrible things happen in history. It's not just that good people don't do anything in the face of evil, it's that good people will happily, enthusiastically support evil, right up until they're frog marching undocumented kids (or even citizens with undocumented parents) out of her classroom into the buses waiting in the parking lot, because they're utterly convinced that evil is good.
Just to be clear, the total inability to understand the chain of causation between things that you can't immediately see is surprisingly common. Humanity knew the cure for scurvy for centuries, but thousands died year after year because people couldn't make the right connections between the potential causes and their effects without a modern, scientific understanding of exactly what scurvy was and why it did or didn't happen.
|
|
philo
climber
|
|
|
Nov 27, 2015 - 08:33am PT
|
Good post HDDJ.
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Nov 13, 2015 - 03:28pm PT
Time to start nuking those motherf*#kers
Seriously
SO to be clear, it was and is the too numerous posts like the vile one quoted above from p1 of this thread that get me to respond - sometimes most passionately - on particular threads.
The sheer lunacy of thinking like thais astounds me almost as much as how some MBKD's (Mouth breathing knuckle draggers) and their squirrly little tribe of dittoheads can get so insenced when thay are called on their errors.
Pretty entertaining if you look at it like watching the Looney Tunes cartoon show. I like to imagine what voices Mel Blanks would give to the wingnutters on the Taco. It makes hearing the vomius they spew easier to hear.
|
|
Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
|
|
|
Nov 27, 2015 - 08:33am PT
|
HDDJ,
Don't be misled.
Public school teachers have excellent pensions. They do better retired than before.
|
|
The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
|
|
|
Nov 27, 2015 - 08:43am PT
|
I have no need to defend every policy advocated or carried out by the POTUS.
Now that's such a "coherent" retort considering the total hypocrisy that I posted on behalf of the POTUS and his Administration regarding all those policies that he has signed into law but refuses to, carry out.
Amazing but, expected.
|
|
Spiny Norman
Social climber
Boring, Oregon
|
|
|
Nov 27, 2015 - 08:44am PT
|
Public school teachers have excellent pensions. They do better retired than before.
As though "public school teachers" all have the same compensation.
Imbecilic.
|
|
philo
climber
|
|
|
Nov 27, 2015 - 08:44am PT
|
OK then back to the toons.
Oh and Spiny, something to look forward to besides Shetheads all too common slam fests of posting the same cyberfart ad nuaseum Is how one of them will post a side wall busting jpeg whenever someone confronts their Bile Lies with actuall verifiable facts. I think they imagine noone can access the truth if the text size is really small.
|
|
Spiny Norman
Social climber
Boring, Oregon
|
|
|
Nov 27, 2015 - 08:47am PT
|
Chief apparently is too stupid to understand that there is more than one set of positions that might diverge from his own. That is one serious mental deficiency. I almost feel sorry for him.
|
|
philo
climber
|
|
|
Nov 27, 2015 - 08:51am PT
|
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Nov 27, 2015 - 08:52am PT
|
More irony ...
|
|
mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
|
|
|
Nov 27, 2015 - 08:56am PT
|
Philo,
It seems to me that their objections are based in your consistent, highly critical views of the west (and of the US and Israel especially). From what I see of your political posts, I see their point.
Western countries are always the cause of these trouble, at least in your posts. Seemingly the only cause.
I've never seen any (political) comment by you that is positive toward the west, in spite of many positive actions that are taken by western countries. I've never seen you acknowledge western values like freedom of expression and woman's rights (as examples) that usually do not exist to nearly the same extent in non-western societies.
I've never seen any post by you that even implies that blame attaches to both sides.
I have noticed though that you've massively toned down the hatred of Israel that seemed so prominent in some of your past political posts. That seems healthy, and thank you for that.
|
|
philo
climber
|
|
|
Nov 27, 2015 - 08:58am PT
|
mntyoung have you ever read any of Werner's posts?
|
|
mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
|
|
|
Nov 27, 2015 - 09:00am PT
|
mntyoung have you ever read any of Werner's posts?
Of course I have.
But Philo, if Werner jumped off a bridge, would you do the same thing?
|
|
mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
|
|
|
Nov 27, 2015 - 09:02am PT
|
mntyoung have you ever read any of Werner's posts?
The other thing about Werner's posts Philo is that they're seemingly made with a tongue somewhat in the cheek. That or he is nuts, and I've met Werner and even hung out with him - he isn't nuts, but he does have a very, very dry sense of humor.
You're more like me - when you post you're usually pretty serious about it.
|
|
philo
climber
|
|
|
Nov 27, 2015 - 09:03am PT
|
???
wow talk about a strange brew of imagined connections.
Werner is why harder about Israel than I have been.
He gets a pass and I get you refusing to acknowledge the value in anything else I have offered. Take the onesided blinders off.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Nov 27, 2015 - 09:03am PT
|
Israel is a world wide Terrorist state who completely backs and supports ISIS .....
|
|
mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
|
|
|
Nov 27, 2015 - 09:07am PT
|
I get you refusing to acknowledge the value in anything else I have offered. Take the onesided blinders off.
I'm not sure at all where I refused to acknowledge the value in anything that you have offered. Not sure at all.
Certainly I share some of your political views too.
I was simply trying to explain in somewhat more neutral words what others (the earlier posters especially) have found objectionable in your posts.
|
|
mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
|
|
|
Nov 27, 2015 - 09:09am PT
|
And on the other hand, maybe Werner is nuts.
After all, he's never even acknowledged repeated invitations to take him out of The Valley to go climbing on loose but famous routes at Pinnacles National Park.
|
|
mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
|
|
|
Nov 27, 2015 - 09:14am PT
|
I'm not sure at all where I refused to acknowledge the value in anything that you have offered. Not sure at all.
Certainly I share some of your political views too.
Here, as a specific example - you make lots of good posts about US domestic politics (some of them are even great posts).
You see through the Republican charade. You consistently come up with great cartoons on these subjects.
|
|
philo
climber
|
|
|
Nov 27, 2015 - 09:20am PT
|
Thank you most sincerely for that Mntyoung. I truly am sorry that you miscontrue my views on the Middle East with a hatred of Jews. I assure you my friends and relatives would find that concept amusing. If we ever talked in person I feel sure your thoughts on my point of view would be mellowed by the open dialogue.
Best to you.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!