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dfrost7
climber
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Oct 21, 2009 - 09:56pm PT
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Hey Gene, happy to see you!
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Gene
Social climber
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Oct 21, 2009 - 10:01pm PT
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Gravity is like evolution, we can observe it, and know that it exists,
We can try to explain it, and it turns out to be alot more complex than it seems...
Kinda like that ole G-thing.
gm
EDIT: Dfrost7,
What's up, Lady? Hope all is good.
gm
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dfrost7
climber
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Oct 21, 2009 - 10:15pm PT
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It's gooood! I fell in the parking lot on my way out of work and hit my knee so hard I almost passed out and puked (didn't do either)! I knew I was fine when one of our admin girls helped me up and I told her she had really cute shoes on. Anyway, halfway home my other knee started to sting - two for one. It's good though.
Sitting here letting it ice and checking out all the new posts.
LS
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Oct 21, 2009 - 10:22pm PT
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Gravity is the bending of spacetime. God created it to make rock climbing much more challenging.
Hopefully Ed will contribute a more knowledgable answer that us layman can also understand.
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cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
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Oct 21, 2009 - 10:38pm PT
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ISBN = International Standard Book Number.
ISSN = International Standard Serial Number. Journals and magazines.
Nablk's posts are quite bizarre.
And no, obviously no one is moving from their original positions, and probably won't, but it's interesting reading anyway. We believe what we want to believe. If we could get at the reasons for those wants, then maybe some minds might be changed, but this is a campfire, not group therapy or a holy-roller revival, so that's unlikely, thankfully.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 21, 2009 - 10:44pm PT
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I miss Gobee's copying and pasting sections from the bible here.
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 21, 2009 - 10:49pm PT
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Cintune go home and swallow your pride and your lame ass veiled attempt at moderator.
This is a fuking fight to the end.
We will all kick ass here.
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cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
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Oct 21, 2009 - 11:01pm PT
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Now we see the violence inherent in the system.
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jstan
climber
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Oct 21, 2009 - 11:02pm PT
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Our language is shifting under our feet and we do not help ourselves if we fail to pay attention.
Common usage has now stripped "belief" of its former meaning having nothing to do with religious faith. You use the word and what you are saying depends upon the listener.
Saying the Law of Gravity, IMO has suffered the same fate. To someone of the religious persuasion the Law of Gravity is an ultimate truth that has been passed down from someone. Who we don't know. But we somehow know it is "ultimate."
All around us in the real physical world there exist phenomena. Things fall when you drop them and the sun comes up in the morning. Unimportant stuff like that. Those wishing to have an understanding of these things, they do after all provide us bread, water, and shelter each day, study them and pose models which do things like allow us to predict when the sun will actually rise tomorrow. Now those models get better as people study things longer and harder so we can predict the natural phenomena more accurately. And do things like set our watches automatically from a satellite. Just routine uninteresting stuff. Gravity is one of the phenomena that has been given a lot of study especially since the turn of the century. 1900 that is. It is getting better and actually is coming to have all manner of interesting wrinkles on it. Check back in in 2050 to see how it is going. We may even be able to detect gravitational waves coming to us from hugely massive stars that exploded the year Ardi was born.
Gravity is not an ultimate truth someone wrote in a book somewhere. It is not a "Law" as the word is now commonly used. Gravity is the reason Christ hung the way he did on the cross. As we use the word today, "Laws" do not involve things like providing the food we eat or the water we drink. No, they deal with something else. What, I personally don't know.
I think we need to be very interested in where our next drink of water is coming from. So I don't study Laws.
On the other hand those who are very interested in the Laws, surely, should read them.
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 21, 2009 - 11:09pm PT
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I knew you'd take bait.
At least Dr F is an atheist. He stands his ground and doesn't waver all over the place with a hodge podge potpourri of religion.
I'll take him and the rest of the people any day over some guy who has no real foundation/stand.
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dfrost7
climber
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Oct 21, 2009 - 11:15pm PT
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Locker - I realize you were going for rude. I used to sort of like your posts. That was pretty ... I don't know ... I guess that's what you're going for.
In all these posts, I don't read anything from the believers, who trouble you so, that is what I can call mean and offensive. What's the point, what are you guys doing?
I think if you want to have a discussion on a topic, when you're out of an answer, just say, "I don't know if God exists or not". To just start slugging because you feel you may need to consider God, Jesus, well, just open your intelligent mind. Some of this sounds like High School stuff.
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cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
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Oct 21, 2009 - 11:35pm PT
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Religion is a hodgepodge potpourri. Some people like the smell, others not so much.
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dfrost7
climber
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Oct 22, 2009 - 12:18am PT
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You take a leap of faith committing to the belief that God doesn't exist. I think many people who protest so loudly, this belief, actually believe in the God they fight with. Your fight is not with us. We didn't invent Him. He exists with or without us. This is fact.
Do you love your wife, your child, your dog? Pull it out, put it on the table and prove it. You love by faith. You already believe in the unseen.
If you lost your sight, you would have to believe everything. This is physical blindness. Take your sight, you will be quickly relying on faith.
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Oct 22, 2009 - 12:29am PT
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Blessed Are the Forgiven
A Maskil of David.
Blessed is the one whose transgression is forgiven,
whose sin is covered.
Blessed is the man against whom the Lord counts no iniquity,
and in whose spirit there is no deceit.
For when I kept silent, my bones wasted away
through my groaning all day long.
For day and night your hand was heavy upon me;
my strength was dried up as by the heat of summer. Selah
I acknowledged my sin to you,
and I did not cover my iniquity;
I said, “I will confess my transgressions to the Lord,”
and you forgave the iniquity of my sin. Selah
Therefore let everyone who is godly
offer prayer to you at a time when you may be found;
surely in the rush of great waters,
they shall not reach him.
You are a hiding place for me;
you preserve me from trouble;
you surround me with shouts of deliverance. Selah
I will instruct you and teach you in the way you should go;
I will counsel you with my eye upon you.
Be not like a horse or a mule, without understanding,
which must be curbed with bit and bridle,
or it will not stay near you.
Many are the sorrows of the wicked,
but steadfast love surrounds the one who trusts in the Lord.
Be glad in the Lord, and rejoice, O righteous,
and shout for joy, all you upright in heart!
Edit; dfrost7, Grand Slam, nothing like a good piece of Hickory!!
Hope your knees feel better soon!
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wack-N-dangle
Gym climber
the ground up
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Oct 22, 2009 - 12:58am PT
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Ed,
RAD!
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Oct 22, 2009 - 01:04am PT
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and what is universal about: "religion, art, love, beauty, philosophy?" all those things you mention are pretty much limited to a person's or persons' beliefs...
... science is not just an opinion or a belief or a feeling.
There is the sense that definition of say, a commutative ring is the same throughout the universe. We know that the same physics holds throughout... and chemistry...
my guess is that we will find out that biology also holds... soon.
What is beauty? what is love? I agree, we can't decide...
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jstan
climber
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Oct 22, 2009 - 01:13am PT
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Ed:
You expect a test of the commutative ring for biology soon? In the solar system or outside of it?
When I first took a course in astronomy the big thing was doppler shifts.
All this in my lifetime!
Would be an awful time to die. New answers nearly every day.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Oct 22, 2009 - 01:15am PT
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no doubt, skip, but what you consider to be beautiful, the art that inspires you, why you love, the religion you believe in
all those things are in you
we can agree on what is beautiful and what is not?
we can say who's art is absolutely inspiring?
true love, what is it, how does it happen, specifically? between whom?
religion, how many have there been, which is the right one?
philosophy, many profound ideas, how do we decide?
in the end, we decide for ourselves.
But science isn't like that... nature decides. (You didn't think Doug was that important, did you?!)
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Oct 22, 2009 - 01:16am PT
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Craig wrote: "I, and all athiests would quickly give up our opinion that there is no God, if any substancial evidence was to appear that proved there is a god, or Gods."
Meaning you'll believe in God the moment "He" rides into town on a pony. You might be waiting a while . . .
Now how about the notion that photos have no mass - or at any rate, no rest mass.
Or that gravity creates mass - that's a totally cutting edge and controversial one.
Or the real doosey from Hawkings and others that there was no "first moment" of time - http://www.everythingforever.com/hawking.htm
JL
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Oct 22, 2009 - 01:18am PT
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as we are now able to "see" planets around stars, we will be able to measure light spectrum, and get an idea of the elemental components of the atmosphere.
Life is indicated by a non-equilibrium abundance of certain elements... we'll be able to see their respiration by the light reflected/emitted by their atmosphere.
exciting times.
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