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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Dec 28, 2014 - 06:37pm PT
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And for a little levity, here's an excerpt from an Introduction I wrote for an introductory Biological Anthropology class I'm teaching online in a couple of weeks. It seems like some of it might apply at times to this thread also.
".........Above all, keep a sense of humor. Remind yourself that on the average, modern humans have a brain three times bigger than a chimp’s. Then ask yourself on any given day, if the human race is acting three times smarter than a chimp? More important to ask on any given day, are you acting three times smarter than a chimp?
How to appear smarter than a chimp in this class.
Format …….
Academics …….
Protocol
1) Very important for a superior quality homo sapiens – don’t plagiarize. Besides, the alpha sapiens have ways of checking on that.
2) Reflect well on your highly social species. Be polite, don’t try to dominate discussions by chest beating and flinging nasty stuff.
3) Do the work if you want the grade. The silver back sapiens here has already heard every creative excuse and pitiful story, and seen every hideous grimace and submissive posture in the tool kit.
4) Whatever happens, do not simply give up and disappear. This is the main behavior that kills grades in the DE jungle. Together, we can work around almost any problem, but you have to maintain communication. Language is after all, the chief characteristic of our species.
We have large brains - 1,500 cubic centimeters on the average - let’s use them!"
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PhilG
Trad climber
The Circuit, Tonasket WA
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Dec 28, 2014 - 06:48pm PT
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Jan,
That is some excellent advice.
I'd love to take your Biological Anthropology class!
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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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Dec 28, 2014 - 08:10pm PT
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Three times smarter than a chimp sounds a laudable goal for students. For me, at my stage in life, my ambition is half the heart of a dog.
Ella, above, is 13 years, old for a dog, but youth is a different country. This pup ran straight in and nearly got swept away.
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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Dec 28, 2014 - 08:50pm PT
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Very nice MH2. Agree wholeheartedly.
I need half the heart of this guy:
Is this cross-thread drift?
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Dec 29, 2014 - 10:00am PT
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Jan,
Do you think that we humans are horribly anthropocentric? Humans are the topic of anthropology after all. My question probably has more to do than archaeology, however.
I don't think that you can really study humans without considering our fellow species, both the remote ones, like bacteria, and the close relatives, such as Homo Erectus, or a close living ancestor such as the great apes, with which we share a huge part of the human genome.
If you look at skeletons, similarities are immediately apparent. Even dinosaurs had spines, ribs, tarsals, skulls, shoulder blades, and the like. If you don't get too wrapped up in humans, you can see that we are just a single speck in an enormous sea of animals.
Religions all single out humans as being the special ones, apart from all of the rest. I believe that Hindus are the only ones who really care about animals in a spiritual sense, and that has always made more sense to me. Hindus believe that any or all of us may have had our souls reside within all animal bodies. The Abrahamic Religions don't even consider this, and they breed, feed, slaughter, and eat, almost any animal which they consider suitable with the exception of pork, which is considered unclean.
If you have ever stepped in pig sh#t, you will understand how pigs are classified in that way.
Geologists think of time much differently than most people. When I see Monument Valley, I see DEEP time. Hundreds of millions of years have contributed to that landscape. To me, humans are a very recent actor in that background of deep time.
Humans are indeed different from other animals, but not much. I should say "Just enough."
Obviously we are more intelligent than most species. I wonder what whales think while they are singing, but we are more intelligent than all but a few competitors. This intelligence has been around for over a million years, but it took the new agrarian lifestyle for what we would call the humanities to arrive. Later, technology grew rapidly, but only a few thousand years ago did we leap from simple stone tools to wheels.
Only a few hundred years ago did science show up (in a big way) and with it modern style technology. Modern technology, to me, seems separate from spiritism.
Science is simply knowledge. Technology is the application of that knowledge, and I will argue that technology has put our species, along with millions of others, at great peril.
The most obvious one is that our technology has allowed us to reproduce at an unsustainable rate. I'm thankful for the knowledge, but quite often not thankful for the results.
Look at oil. It will be gone in 100 years. How will we cross oceans then? Sailboats again? Oil is an incredibly dense form of energy, and we can use it to power huge airplanes. Will we be riding horses again in 100 years?
People blindly think that "Oh, Science will come up with something."
That, in my mind, is a dangerous assumption. If technology can't bail us out of what we are doing to the planet, then we are in for a tough future.
So no. Anyone with a brain doesn't worship technology. Completely, anyway. If it is worshiped like some religion, then that is wrong. Right now, though, people do worship technology. "Worship" isn't the correct word. People "assume" it is good. Geez, Mike is typing at me from his cellphone in some far away airport. 30 years ago we would have thought cellphones were just like Captain Kirk's communicator.
Humans are also stupid when the facts don't fit their world view. That is why I reckon that we are in our brief shining period, but if we don't stop gobbling up resources and allowing the population to exceed the planet's carrying capacity, we are going to be in huge trouble.
Few people look behind the curtain, IMO.
Jan. Is there anyway out of this corner? I think that it is there, but nobody wants to admit it.
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 29, 2014 - 10:09am PT
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Modern technology, to me, seems separate from spiritism.
Nope it's rooted in the spiritual realm.
Because you don't really have a real clue what spirit and matter is you make these foolish assumptions.
Academics will only get you so far and then you'll hit some extremely high walls.
You rely completely on academics only for your ultimate knowledge.
Doing this only, you will ultimately fail at everything ......
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Dec 29, 2014 - 10:38am PT
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I agree with one sentence. Academics taught me about 10% of what I've learned. By Academics, I mean time spent in school.
It takes years to become a productive exploration geologist because none of us publish. It is all secret. To even look at a prospect you must first sign a Confidentiality Agreement. Professors are hopelessly out of the business, and all they do is teach you the basics.
I got into an argument with a professor at Cornell over a paper he had written. He attacked me for not publishing and then attached his impressive CV. He told me to shut up and do science.
I do science at a very high level every day, but I'll never publish. It is a mistake to attach too much authority to somebody's academic credentials.
A lot of fields are like that. Ed makes his living by publishing, but the top dog engineer at Apple doesn't publish. That would be giving away the crown jewels.
Life experiences are also not taught very much. You are raised by your parents, and they use their life experiences to train you. Since the average age on this thread is probably at least 50, there is a lot of experience here.
Gotta log off for a few days. You can waste an incredible amount of time here arguing on the internet. It boggles my mind. I can't keep up on this one thread.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Dec 29, 2014 - 12:18pm PT
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Blast from the past...
.....
Law 32...
Play to people's fantasies.
"The truth is often avoided because it is ugly and unpleasant. Never appeal to truth and reality [in the face of fantasy] unless you are prepared for the anger that comes from disenchantment."
"Life is so harsh and distressing that people who can manufacture romance or conjure up fantasy are like oases in the desert: Everyone flocks to them. There is great power in tapping into the fantasies of the masses."
"Fantasy can never operate alone. It requires the backdrop of the humdrum and the mundane."
"The person who can spin a fantasy out of an oppressive reality has access to untold power."
The 48 Laws of Power
Robert Greene
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jgill
Boulder climber
Colorado
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Dec 29, 2014 - 12:26pm PT
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They barely had rotary dials when I was a kid.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Dec 29, 2014 - 01:30pm PT
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Cintune, the Heartmath stuff is actually very effective but all the scientific work up about heart coherence and so forth I believe is not only misleading but irrelevant.
Heartmath is basically a biofeedback machine and when you get the finger sensor and get it all hooked up to the computer, you can see a heart signal wave and will be rather amazed how spiky it is. After settling for a few minutes and keeping your eyes on the signal and letting your breath stretch out, the signal starts leveling out and you can enter a very nice flow state. What's amazing to me is that Heartmath is a device that provides a direct experience, and the joker who was arguing about this and that never actually hooked himself up and test drove what he was talking about, and instead got mired in a bunch of figures consequent to actually "climbing the rock," so to speak.
JL
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jgill
Boulder climber
Colorado
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Dec 29, 2014 - 04:22pm PT
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Well, Newton confused me with fluxions, but Leibniz came to my rescue with differentials. It was an age of discovery and I was happy to be there!
Cintune: we should all acknowledge the emptiness at the bottom of matter and get on with our lives.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Dec 29, 2014 - 04:41pm PT
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Cintune: we should all acknowledge the emptiness at the bottom of matter and get on with our lives.
This is a common confusion - that this emptiness is something other than our lives in the most basic and empirical sense of the word. That emptiness is a meaningless aspect of reality and since "we" can't do anything about it, and can't do math inside of it, and can't pull discursive stuff from it in any significant way, emptiness is just a kind of footnote to the actual lives we lead.
The exact opposite is true. I suspect that it is just like matter - that the close we look at this life of ours, we finally realize there is "no thing" there.
As a discursive concept this is no great shakes. Who cares, since it seems this emptiness is "not me."
As a direct experience, it is notable.
JL
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jgill
Boulder climber
Colorado
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Dec 29, 2014 - 08:11pm PT
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This is a common confusion - that this emptiness is something other than our lives in the most basic and empirical sense of the word
Careful you don't pull defeat from the jaws of victory . . .
;>)
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MikeL
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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Dec 29, 2014 - 09:31pm PT
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Base:
What I liked about your earlier post was that it seemed open to other views.
As for publishing, it’s a special kind of life. An arcane ballet of sorts. It’s not really about finding reality or anything. It does attract people with big brains, but heck, what’s the importance of that?
Jgill: Careful you don't pull defeat from the jaws of victory . . .
I know! It really seems that way, doesn’t it? How can it not?
(I think John has it exactly right.)
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Dec 29, 2014 - 10:46pm PT
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Mike,
Nigh all of us are open to other views and ideas. When we type on this thread it can sound like philosophical warfare, though.
I've said that I'm interested in meditation many times. The problem is that there are only a few places to go locally, and they are a 30 minute drive away.
The menu of teachers is a hell of a lot better in Los Angeles than in Norman. I am more than willing to do one of those 7 day retreats that Largo is always telling us to do.
I don't know if it would end up helping me solve work problems, but work is only a part of our lives. I like art, for instance. We do have an old fire station from the 20's that has been converted to an arts center. They have really good instructors and offer classes on many topics. I'm in my second semester of jewelry making!
Hey, don't assume that I don't have a woo woo side just because I have a BASE number! I'm also taking a class in kiln formed glass. Not glass blowing. They have to keep the kiln on 24/7 to teach blowing. I guess it burns a lot of electricity to keep it at thousands of degrees.
Hobbies? Ho man do I have a lot of hobbies. Pave settings? NBD
I didn't mean to bash publishing. I was just saying that tons of work can never be published because it is part of a business. They spend a lot of money accumulating knowledge and have to protect it. A dog eat dog out there. So I can't publish, but if each prospect were a paper, that would be quite a few papers by now.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Dec 30, 2014 - 06:45am PT
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re: the sharing of beliefs
re: belief and conduct
re: privatizing belief vs publicizing belief
re: privatizing belief: hypocrisy or strategy?
Law 38 - Think as you like but behave like others.
"If you make a show of going against the times, flaunting your unconventional ideas and unorthodox ways, people will think that you only want attention and that you look down upon them. They will find a way to punish you for making them feel inferior."
"It is far safer to blend in and nurture the common touch."
"Share your originality [or unpopular belief?] only with tolerant friends and those who are sure to appreciate your uniqueness."
The 48 Laws of Power
Robert Greene
(of course I've broken these Laws of Power a gazillion times, lol!)
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Dec 30, 2014 - 08:20am PT
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Well there you go... om......
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Yo Dingus, if you're gonna take a piss at this stuff (fair enough), at least mention what your experience is with Om and how you came to conclude what you did, whatever that is. What are your conclusions, anyhow? I'm not inquiring about commentary on the mythical things attributed to Om by various 3rd world cultures, rather the technical intention behind using this or any chant, and what do you suppose are the brain and consciousness changes that take place when you do so, and do you believe that these technical things are lost on those who actually use these consciousness tools?
FYI, Om is not commonly used these days to generate blind faith in some doctrine or to cement a belief in arcane mythology. It has a very spedcific technical purpose, not unlike "staring at your navel," which certain rubes here believe is some wonky end in itself.
Oh, the humanity . . .
JL
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Dec 30, 2014 - 09:26am PT
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Is all Buddhism and meditation so consumed with tapping into this non-physical emptiness? I know that there are different schools; Zen being only one.
And if, or when, you find this emptiness, what do you learn or experience?
Like many others, my only real knowledge of Buddha comes from Herman Hesse's Siddhartha, who found a middle way. I have a few other books that I showed to Jeff Jackson (who is super into Yoga), and he commented that they were from a "Vietnamese" school.
For all of you who bash the mags, Jeff is about the kindest person that I've ever met. Great human being.
I like the idea of Buddhism precisely because I DON'T have to believe in Christian-type woo to practice it. Christianity never passed the basic, critical, smell test for me. It is full of contradictions. The Koran is the same, but scarier.
I should say that the Old Testament reads like a bunch of fairy tales. The New Testament is very different. It stresses love and compassion. There is a lot of wisdom in the New Testament.
Do you guys give away money, even when you are broke? I do, and it drives my wife crazy if I tell her about it. It makes me feel good.
That is the world that I want to live in. One based on love, compassion, altruism, all of those attributes that we pay lip service to, but rarely perform. Sometimes I see religion standing in the way of this possible world. For an extreme example, look at ISIS and Sharia law.
Those religions spend a lot of time killing each other. We are one of the worst killers right here. People wrap it all up in "patriotism" to make it digestible.
There was a case a few years ago in one of the Islamic countries where a woman was severely punished because they thought that she didn't fight her rapists hard enough. They went after the woman instead of the rapists.
Women get the short end of the stick in the Abrahamic religions. Especially in Islam, where they are treated like goats.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Dec 30, 2014 - 09:35am PT
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at least mention what your experience is with Om
About the same as your experience with particle physics, I suspect.
What are your conclusions, anyhow?
Don't have any. No agenda, no conclusions.
DMT
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You're dancing on the head of a pin there, and your agenda from the start has been to heroically debunk all "preachers" and snake charmers, and to foist "woo" into the corner with all the shuck and jive that pollutes our rational world.
My point is that Om and Heart Math and alot of the stuff that gets talked about on this thread is experiential territory that to know anything about, you must go there and see for your own self. Instead, people study the maps of said territory, and draw conclusions on the often lame quantifications and commentary of same.
So the question becomes - how much of the truth do you really want to know? If the peanut gallery is sufficient for you fair enough. As they say, "Climbing is not for everyone." Some are content just to look at the pictures. Buit when they start sounding off about the climbing itself, having only skimmed the images on the page, we must acknowledge the con going on before us.
JL
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