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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Jan 31, 2012 - 06:51pm PT
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Oh crap here we go again.
Fuzzy thinking.
:-)
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FeelioBabar
Trad climber
One drink ahead of my past.
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Jan 31, 2012 - 06:52pm PT
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Oh Jesus....That blonde in question, is more kicked in than a Fallujah front door.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Jan 31, 2012 - 06:56pm PT
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Classless.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jan 31, 2012 - 06:58pm PT
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Werner wrote
Cesare Maestri didn't care when he went crazy on the Cerro Torre.
K&K is the karmic reaction to Cesare Maestri.
Spinning wheels got go round .....
Werner's right, this is a karma thing.
Just like the colonialism of the past brought the seeds of wars in Vietnam and the Middle East, none of it any good.
Two wrongs (the compressor route and the chopping) not adding up to anything right.
Maestri was pissed at not being believed the first time and so went up with some tweak in his heart and a compressor. The energy of the tweak returns with the chop, which is also tweaked.
Egos bring distortion and destruction. Iconic mountains like Torre and Everest attract the actions of egos.
Ironically, the compressor was sort of a visionary idea, ahead of it's time and now a lot of climbing is established with power drills, like it or not. The actions of visionaries are sometimes vindicated by time, as once hang-dogging was shunned but now embraced, and sometimes repudiated. In this case..... both
Peace
Karl
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FeelioBabar
Trad climber
One drink ahead of my past.
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Jan 31, 2012 - 06:58pm PT
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And wasn't the compressor removed once, and then the gov. ordered it returned to it's original place?
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Jan 31, 2012 - 07:03pm PT
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Photos by Blitzo, courtesy of MountainProject.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Jan 31, 2012 - 07:05pm PT
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Blitzo is such a fine photographer!
Speaking of fine photographs, has anyone noticed the amazing cloud formations on Cerro Torre in the back of ALPINIST 37? Great analogue for the divergent opinions present in this thread.
Hey, now if I travel to the Dolomites am I going to get beat up?
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Johnny K.
climber
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Jan 31, 2012 - 11:14pm PT
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Piton Ron
Anyway Bird might have considered Maestri a pussy but Jim's views have morphed substantially over the years to say the least.
It would be great if he weighed in now.
Even though he hated the act, the route itself was a crowning achievement for a guy previously known as head kahuna of C4.
And what of the chopping now?
I see.That would be great if we could hear what Bridwell has to say about the current subject.
Philo hahaa Awesome post =D
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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Should we dis Hillary next...
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Are you joking Gaslover or blind as a bat?
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The cad
climber
Does it matter, really?!?
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Tahoe climber wrote:
I still think it's interesting that the Italians (and other anti-chop posters) don't offer a peep about their opinions of removing the bolts in the context of Maestri starting the job himself.
He removed some of the bolts himself, while on the way down from his second near ascent, did he not?
In the absence of any statement from him thus far, I find his action very telling - practically an open invitation to anyone to finish the job, and representing a coming back to sanity after a brief sojourn. I think he realized that it was a mess and a mistake, and began trying to fix it, but didn't have the time, energy or motivation to fix it entirely.
Come on, this issue has already been discussed at least one hundred times.
From Alpinist.com:
Now, instead of letting his [Maestri's] partners join him at the high point, he [Maestri] had a sudden impulse. "[A] devilish plan comes into my mind: I'll take out all the bolts and leave the climb as clean as we found it. I'll break them all, so that whoever tries to repeat our route won't even be able to benefit from the holes we've drilled." On rappel, Maestri chopped some twenty of his bolts; he disabled the compressor, and "toss[ed] down the face anything that might be helpful to others: pitons, carabiners, ropes."
Maestri's chopping of his own route was yet another "phuk u" to the climbing community who didn't believe to his '59 ascent.
How many times shall we repeat this?
Is it so hard to get it?
What if Maestri had chopped the whole route?
Very simple: we wouldn't be here endlessly ranting.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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He sounds like a habitual litterbug.
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enzolino
climber
Galgenen, Switzerland
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Only Kruk is allowed ... he is the foreigner ... but I'm sure there are plenty of other mountain talebans who would volunteer to join him!!!
:-)))
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enzolino
climber
Galgenen, Switzerland
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On 16 January 2012, American Hayden Kennedy and Canadian Jason Kruk made a self-defined "fair-means" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerro_Torre
LOL
Just a question ... how many "self-defined" definitions of "fair means" exist?
I would list some reference "fair means" styles.
Free solo: climbing with no rope and no protections.
Freeclimbing: using protection just for security and not for progression.
Alpine Style: climbing a mountain or a route in one push without using fixed ropes.
Boltless: climbing a route without using the bolts, neither for protection or for progression.
Further suggestions?
Should we add the KKK definition?
KKK: Fair means does not mean no bolts. Reasonable use of bolts has been a long-accepted practice in this mountain range.
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mika
Big Wall climber
Zurich, switzerland
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If any person has the right to talk about fair means on Torre it is David Lama with his fantastic free climb. After this action the climb of the KKK became just another aid climb of Torre.
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uli__
climber
Milan, Italy
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is it certified(1) that he didn't put his pinkies in the bolt holes?
(1) it seems that on this particular mountain lack of contrary evidence is not enough to trust alpinist's word as the '59 "presumed" ascent testmony
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enzolino
climber
Galgenen, Switzerland
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If any person has the right to talk about fair means on Torre it is David Lama with his fantastic free climb. After this action the climb of the KKK became just another aid climb of Torre. I absolutely agree ... and it's a pity that his achievement was overshadowed by the KKK action ...
Lama accomplishment is amazing ...
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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I absolutely agree ... and it's a pity that his achievement was overshadowed by the KKK action ...Lama accomplishment is amazing ...
Lama's achievement, like Maestri, is overshadowed only by his own previous [bad] choices on the route.
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enzolino
climber
Galgenen, Switzerland
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Lama's achievement, like Maestri, is overshadowed only by his own previous [bad] choices on the route. Well ... at least Lama accepted criticism
http://www.alpinist.com/doc/web10x/newswire-lama-speaks-compressor
I have without a doubt accepted the consequences from my critics and agreed with Red Bull that for the next attempt on this project other tactics will be used, and no additional bolts will be placed for the production. This decision will have consequences on the quality of the production, but I am happy that Red Bull is with me in this resolution. If it turns out that the film project is no longer possible, and the production abandoned, I will not change my plan—to attempt to free Cerro Torre accordingly adjusted his choice and accomplished his outstanding goal.
I hope KKK would do the same ...
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nopantsben
climber
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this entire thread just puts climbing and its community into a bad light.
americans vs. italians/swiss is what it looks like here . of course that's not even the case, but the dumb arguing is shameful.
it's sad that some climber compares the bolts on the the Torre to the Berlin Wall, and it even gets rewritten by KK and then R&I and Alpinst cite that bullsh#t. It makes climbers look like stupid idiots!
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