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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Feb 20, 2014 - 10:48am PT
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Yeah, Bruce's accounts-the meager whole heavily laden on clean energy startups and shorts on FF giants. Oh, horror of Whores.How do you spell hypocrite.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Feb 20, 2014 - 10:50am PT
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How do you spell hypocrite. You're too much of a SPINELESS COWARD and WEAKDICK to be one.
C-H-E-F
Coward AND Liar to boot.
Worthless and totally full of shet.
But then what do you expect when all one does all day is slurps up the spurms of those one wishes to be "buddies" with.
The Irony Chef
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dirtbag
climber
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Feb 20, 2014 - 11:00am PT
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Well you're not a liar. Can #1 say he's not a liar, without his nose growing longer?
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Feb 20, 2014 - 11:18am PT
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President Obama could, tomorrow, use his pen and phone to tell the automotive industry that in a year or two the entire federal car fleet needs to be run on natural gas.
respectfully sir, you are wrong
it would take both houses of congress to vote on and pass such legislation you propose
and if that happens, I have no doubt President Obama would sign it into law
Civics 101
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Feb 20, 2014 - 11:36am PT
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Just eyeballing the temperature record, I plotted trendlines for two 40 year periods. You know what?
You are retarded and don't know science from make believe?
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Feb 20, 2014 - 11:41am PT
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Really? Obama seems quite comfortable rewriting the Affordable Care Act. How is this different?
Yeah, how is changing the policies governing the health care system different than mandating a change in the entire manufacturing process that produces durable goods?
Duh, it's like you don't even TRY to believe in fairy tales.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Feb 20, 2014 - 12:33pm PT
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Is it really a fact that increased atmospheric CO2 increases surface temps, Ed. I think you need to qualify that by saying that increased atmospheric CO2 ,at the levels we are at, slightly increases LWR deflected back to the surface and dependent upon weather, albedo etc. at near surface can increase surface temps slightly. Isn't this a truer statement, professor?
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dirtbag
climber
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Feb 20, 2014 - 12:34pm PT
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Feb 20, 2014 - 09:28am PT
Explain the forcing mechanism of the first time period FUKEDMENTAL!
You can't can you.
Now, post more of your vile photoshopped hatred shet to deflect your ignorance.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Lick it up, Pinocchio.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Feb 20, 2014 - 01:26pm PT
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But professor, the observations you compare the constantly changing backcasts and firecasts of the models are from adjusted and erroneously infilled data. Nobody buys the adjustments and infills that miracuously always bolster the weather wacko position , but the braindead.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Feb 20, 2014 - 01:38pm PT
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where are the errors in the data, Rick?
thanks
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Feb 20, 2014 - 01:48pm PT
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I always feel weird piling on with Norton, but I am unaware of data errors. Any models using nonexperimental data get revised as we acquire more data. That affects confidence intervals, and reflects our imperfect understanding, but doesn't make the statistical conclusions invalid. In particular, we would be foolish to ignore the data and models we have. We simply should use them being aware that their confidence intervals imply not only the possibility of overstating, but understating the effect of human activity.
John
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Feb 20, 2014 - 03:28pm PT
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If one has an ounce of unbiased free will to think with the great Dr. Roy Spencer is a good source of information to start with for unvarnished truth in model/observations comparisons. If you don't have unbiased free will there is no possible source that could jackhammer free your concreted synapses.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Feb 20, 2014 - 03:38pm PT
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where and what are the errors in the data, Rick?
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Feb 20, 2014 - 04:11pm PT
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Ed, since you mention the Wall Street Journal's Opinion Page, I note there was another opinion piece on the use and limitation of the most often-quoted climate models this morning:
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303945704579391611041331266?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop
I'd be curious to know your take on this. I do note that the authors acknowledge that human activity has increased the concentrations of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, and that carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas that would trap heat. Their beef, as I read it, is with determining the extent to which this increased carbon dioxide is responsible for change in climate, specifically change in mean temperature.
While I would agree with them that statements such as Secretary Kerry's last week say too much, I'm always distrustful of someone who criticizes a model without offering a better model. I'd appreciate knowing what you think.
Thanks.
John
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Feb 20, 2014 - 05:18pm PT
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Complete weather wacko propoganda Ed, especially your point 2 . What temp time series is he supposed to use- the newly reconstructed one, supported by modelled imfills like Cowtan and Way 2013 , or the accepted sets from Hadcrut and his own UAH satellite series commissioned and accepted by Nasa for over 20 years? You can't trust modelled datasets over accepted observations. I'm getting on a bird heading north, sardine can class of course, perhaps you can provide an acceptable and independently verifiable answer to JE's question
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Feb 20, 2014 - 05:43pm PT
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Rick is science-proof. If the data don't suit his political beliefs, then the data aren't just wrong, they are a conspiracy! Which proves that his political beliefs were right.
Conversely if someone makes data claims that do suit Rick's political beliefs, they are not only right they are great! As in "the great Dr. Roy Spencer." Who in reality has often been wrong in his science -- whether on the earlier UAH lower-troposphere temperatures or more recent analytical papers. BYU geochemist Barry Bickmore gives a synopsis of Spencer's mistakes, with many links.
Rick writes,
What temp time series is he supposed to use- the newly reconstructed one, supported by modelled imfills like Cowtan and Way 2013 , or the accepted sets from Hadcrut and his own UAH satellite series commissioned and accepted by Nasa for over 20 years? You can't trust modelled datasets over accepted observations.
This manages to get all three datasets wrong in different ways. All the global temperature indexes use infilling, they have to because there is not a thermometer every cubic meter. But some do the infilling better. HadCRUT4 does it poorly -- by leaving so much of the globe out of their index, they in effect infill all the white areas by assuming they equal the global average.
Cowtan & Way use a more intelligent infilling system that draws on UAH satellite data as well as land stations, buoys and other surface measurements. So they don't assume all those white areas equal the global average.
As for the satellite records, Rick has that wrong two ways. First, he apparently doesn't know about the big problems and revisions the UAH record went through, which invalidated a number of Spencer & Christy papers. Second, he doesn't seem to know how satellites measure temperature in the first place, which is not a simple "observation" but highly model-dependent. Upthread I quoted Spencer's comments about the faulty model used for RSS; Cowtan & Way recognized that related problems make the UAH record also less trustworthy for trends. [Short version: satellite orbits and sometimes instrumentation decay over time, with subtle effects on microwave-based temperature estimates.]
For a longer version with links to the published papers (and an intro to satellite temperature estimation) this Wikipedia page gives a starting point.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Feb 20, 2014 - 06:38pm PT
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The only useful thing that has come out of this thread since its conception:
"Nazi Origami"
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