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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Jan 27, 2016 - 08:46am PT
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I'm frustrated to read that so many out there are applauding someone's death and advocating butt rape.
Justice should be served, and if you pull a gun on a cop, you'll probably die.
However, the vultures out there saying it's a good thing that someone died are way too disconnected from reality.
And seriously, butt rape?
Get ahold of yourselves, people.
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kattz
climber
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Jan 27, 2016 - 08:49am PT
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I'll be moving to either Mongolia or Altai mountains within Russia borders.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jan 27, 2016 - 08:52am PT
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The FBI will now investigate itself to confirm that none of it's personnel acted wrongfully.
They are on a roll. A perfect performance that dwarfs Nadia Comaneci's 10.
“The F.B.I. takes very seriously any shooting incidents involving our agents, and as such we have an effective, time-tested process for addressing them internally,” a bureau spokesman said.
But if such internal investigations are time-tested, their outcomes are also predictable: from 1993 to early 2011, F.B.I. agents fatally shot about 70 “subjects” and wounded about 80 others — and every one of those episodes was deemed justified, according to interviews and internal F.B.I. records obtained by The New York Times through a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jan 27, 2016 - 08:53am PT
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I'm with Brandon, this is very sad, on many fronts. But give me one A-10 and it's ovah in 5 min.
They'll have to rebuild anyway.
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kattz
climber
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Jan 27, 2016 - 09:01am PT
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"Live streaming"... from "armed standoff camp".... using evil Federal utilities (and I'm sure evil iPhones equipped with government/spying hardware as well... somehow the feds didn't activate the iPhone kill switch!)... imagine the demands in jail... "vanilla creamer, please, and the internet is too slow today". Seriously, these guys can't even see themselves in the mirror, they need to be sent to a 3rd world country for a year and made survive on their own. I think this would be even better idea than federal prison.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Jan 27, 2016 - 09:18am PT
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Good post Brandon.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jan 27, 2016 - 09:19am PT
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I'll be moving to either Mongolia or Altai mountains within Russia borders.
Trust me, the wi-fi there sucks.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Jan 27, 2016 - 09:21am PT
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That page is pretty amazing.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Jan 27, 2016 - 09:25am PT
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However, the vultures out there saying it's a good thing that someone died are way too disconnected from reality.
Actually, I didn't see anyone posting that Finicum's death was a "good thing". Can you share that direct quote?
Many forgive gallows humor when it's Fish talking about someone jumping off Glacier Point, but it's not understood when these guys were virtually begging for gunplay.
One of the witnesses already posted a video on Facebook that he saw the pickup take off, with Finicum as the driver, after being stopped. How's that supposed to play out, when the cops know the people in the car are armed?
The occupiers also conveniently forgot that before the humble ranchers working the land, the whole area was controlled by a cattle baron who everyone hated, Peter French.
Cattle king
After several years, French's small cattle operation had expanded, helped in large part by Glenn as his financier. The P Ranch became the headquarters for his growing cattle empire. He and his men built fences, drained marshlands and irrigated large areas of land, broke hundreds of horses and mules, and cut and stacked native hay. French's empire expanded to include the Diamond Valley, the Blitzen Valley, and the Catlow Valley. The land encompasses approximately 160,000 to 200,000 acres (650 to 800 km²). A shrewd businessman, French took advantage of the Swamp and Overflow Act, which allowed marshland to be purchased at $1.25 an acre. He built dams to flood areas, bought the land under the Swamp Act at the reduced price, then removed the dams to return the land to its original state. French also directed his employees and others to file homestead claims that he would then purchase. His attempts at seizing more and more land even included fencing lands in the public domain.
In 1883, French married Glenn’s daughter Ella. Glenn was murdered three weeks later by a former employee. French continued to manage the Oregon operation for the Glenn family, selling more cattle to help pay the family’s debts. In 1894, Glenn’s heirs decided to incorporate the French-Glenn partnership into the French-Glenn Livestock Company, making French the company president.[1][2] French was divorced in 1891.
Fall
In June 1878 the native Paiute and Bannock (both closely associated with the Shoshone tribes) population at the base of the Steens Mountain swooped upon the P Ranch, but not before a messenger could warn French of the impending attack. French and all but one of his men were able to escape. The attacks continued throughout the summer. The Paiutes burned buildings and homes, ran off cattle and horses, and at least once shot French's horse out from under him. At one point, French even accompanied the U.S. 1st Cavalry Regiment to guide the Army through the area.
In the 1880s and 1890s, stockmen and smaller farmers fought over land and water rights. Aggression over such rights and French's large spread of land drew a certain loathing toward him.
French arrived back home from a business trip on Christmas Day in 1897 bearing gifts he had purchased for his wife, children and cowhands. His crew chief fell ill in the night, and French took on the responsibilities of trail boss the next morning.
On December 26, 1897, French opened the gate to a sagebrush field to let his cattle through. As he remounted his horse, Ed Oliver, a man with whom French had had a previous boundary spat, rode his horse at full speed straight at French. Oliver's horse collided with French's, and as Oliver charged again, French struck him over the head with a willow whip. Oliver produced a revolver from his waistband and fired one shot. The bullet struck French in the head and killed him instantly. Oliver, fearing retribution from French's men, sped off.
Another lost battle
Harney County Sheriff Andrew John McKinnon arrested Oliver the next day, Oliver still wearing the weapon that had taken French's life. French's brother, Burt, filed an indictment for murder; the charge was dropped the day before Oliver's trial was to begin. Harney County District Attorney Charles W. Parfish would not let it drop, and filed a new indictment for manslaughter, acting on the belief that he would stand a better chance of pinning down the lesser charge.
The trial began on May 19, 1898, with members of French's crew testifying that Oliver had shot French from behind as he rode away from Oliver. Lionel R. Webster, attorney for Oliver, maintained that Oliver had shot French in self-defense, having feared for his life. With few options, Webster put his client on the stand. Oliver testified that French beat him with the willow whip, and screamed "I'll kill you!" as he reached for a gun. French's men had earlier testified, however, that French was not armed, and jurors took only three hours in deliberation before returning the verdict "not guilty".
John William "Peter" French was buried in Red Bluff, California next to the graves of his father and mother at the Oak Hill Cemetery.
"Forward all snacks to Y'allcatraz." One of the winner quotes.
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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Jan 27, 2016 - 09:40am PT
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Jan 27, 2016 - 09:41am PT
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Freedom rolls. Damn that looks good.
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Norton
Social climber
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Jan 27, 2016 - 09:42am PT
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I don't agree one bit with the take over of a refuge by armed individuals. I do think our government is out of control and has put these ranchers ability to feed their families in jeopardy by governing their existence towards extinction.
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oh please...
the poor poor ranchers my ass .....
you know what bunky? they earn your sympathy too easily
and they can earn my sympathy by playing by the same damn rules we all play by
like paying to graze, fatten, and then slaughter your cattle for profit on land that does
not fuking belong to you, that you did and not own, and that year after year you broke the law we ALL abide by refusing, refusing to pay a very very reasonable amount of money to the owner of that land, your neighbor
spare me any, any sympathy for those criminals, got that "wtf" ?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jan 27, 2016 - 09:46am PT
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No stupid crankloons around
Boy, howdy! That rifle wasn't for show, either - wolves and Snow Leopards love mutton!*
And the freshly-squeezed yoghurt was to die for!
*At another place not that far from there the dood had two Snow Leopard hides drying on
the side of his house. I wasn't thrilled to see that but that's the way it was there - REAL!
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Jan 27, 2016 - 09:56am PT
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Survival,
No, I'm not going to look back over the thread to find quotes that essentially say, 'let 'em die'. I've been following the story and this thread, and I know what I read.
these guys were virtually begging for gunplay.
I agree. However it still seems like some here were ok with, if not glad about, the outcome. I may be wrong.
The loss of any life shouldn't be applauded. I've been guilty of it before, and hope to never repeat it again.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jan 27, 2016 - 10:00am PT
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I'm indifferent. Better one of them than any cop. If they want to march around and play guerilla then that is what happens.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 27, 2016 - 10:05am PT
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I'll be moving to either Mongolia or Altai mountains within Russia borders.
Or maybe Schmongolia
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Jan 27, 2016 - 10:06am PT
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However it still seems like some here were ok with, if not glad about, the outcome. I may be wrong.
The loss of any life shouldn't be applauded. I've been guilty of it before, and hope to never repeat it again.
Understood. Well put. I feel exactly the same. I certainly hope that there wasn't a single post of mine that implied a call for lives to be taken. I have hoped from the beginning that these folks would pay with jail time, not lives. Though it did almost seem to have the dark feel of inevitability from the beginning also.
Sadly, this is only one act in a continuing play.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Jan 27, 2016 - 10:09am PT
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Brandon posted I agree. However it still seems like some here were ok with, if not glad about, the outcome. I may be wrong.
The loss of any life shouldn't be applauded. I've been guilty of it before, and hope to never repeat it again.
The loss of any life is horrible, however I have a hard time feeling much sorrow when people who very much knew what they were getting into choose a violent path and find violence.
"There are things more important than life and that includes freedom."
-Lavoy Finicum
The dude committed suicide by cop. It is sad, but it is also pathetic. He put others in danger in the pursuit of his on grandiose vision. I am grateful that no law enforcement officers were hurt.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Jan 27, 2016 - 10:13am PT
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I guess that's where we disagree, HDDJ.
While I don't mourn the loss of the militia member, I feel for his family and the cop who was forced to shoot him.
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