The Gun debate sandbox

Let's man up about this - this isn't a "people" problem. This is a man problem.

Kris, My source was seeing Wayne Lapierre say it on television in an interview shortly after the Virginia Tech shooting. I don't know his exact position in the NRA, but I know he's one of the top dogs.

I can't make an exact quote, but the jist of it was that mentally ill Americans were still Americans, and he would fight for their constitutional rights just the same as he would for every other American.

He went on to say it was one of those slippery slope things, who was to decide who was mentally ill, etc... He used an imagined example of someone who's spouse made a false claim of domestic violence against them, court ordered psychiatric evaluation, end result of someone who was innocent of any wrongdoing deprived of their (and this did stick in my mind),"God given" constitutional right to bear arms.

Mandatory registering of all guns and licensing gun owners

Greatly extend the waiting period for gun sales to insure appropriate background checks (just make sure there ARE appropriate background checks and a cooling off period, 3 days minimum)

Mandatory reporting of all lost or stolen weapons

Felony conviction for failure to report a lost or stolen weapon which is later used in the commission of a crime

Register all ammunition sales

Subject gun show sales to the same requirements as dealers


And this one added in particular:

Proper locks and storage so your idiot kid doesn't shoot you and the rest of your town with your own motherf*#king gun.


And I'd add confiscation of any unregistered guns and guns left unsecured.

Gun licensing should include a test on safe handling such as locking up your guns.

NRA Looks At Ways To Stop Destruction Of Tucson Guns

DAVID TAINTOR 1:34 PM EST, THURSDAY JANUARY 10, 2013
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The National Rifle Association is looking at ways to stop the destruction of future guns, after a Tucson, Ariz., company destroyed more than 200 firearms turned in at a city buyback this week, an NRA national board member told TPM Thursday.

"We have plans to fix the problem of the destruction of the guns in the future, but I'm not going to give any details," said Todd Rathner, who lives in Arizona and has served on the NRA's board for 13 years.

Earlier this week, Rathner threatened to sue over the city's buyback, claiming that Arizona law requires guns claimed by the police to be sold to licensed firearms dealers. Asked whether he is still considering the suit, Rathner told TPM: "We're looking at all options."

Tucson Police Department spokesman Sgt. Chris Widmer told TPM Thursday that City Attorney Michael Rankin concluded that guns turned in voluntarily do not need to be resold.

Rathner said the the issue isn't about guns themselves but the law. "I never said guns have rights," he added.
(Photo: Robert Woodward looks on as Tucson police officers strip a shotgun Woodward turned in at a gun buyback event on Jan. 8, 2013 in Tucson, Ariz. Participants were offered a $50 gift card to a grocery store in exchange for their guns. Credit: Will Seberger/ZUMA Press/Newscom)

L.A. NOW
SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA -- THIS JUST IN
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Taft classroom shooting: Heroic effort prevents further violence
January 10, 2013 | 3:34 pm


Authorities praised the heroic actions of school officials that prevented further bloodshed after a 16-year-old student at Taft Union High School near Bakersfield burst into a classroom Thursday. He allegedly shot a boy in the chest and attempted to fire a 12-gauge shotgun at another student.

A neighbor saw the student walking to the school with a gun and called 911 about 9 a.m. The suspect was supposed to be in the classroom he burst into, which was filled with about 28 students. The suspect waved the gun in different directions and after firing at the victim, aimed at another student and missed, Youngblood said.

A teacher and campus supervisor were able to evacuate the classroom before anyone else was injured. The teacher suffered a minor pellet wound to his head and another student may have suffered hearing damage, authorities said. The suspect had as many as 20 rounds in his pocket.

“They did a great job of protecting the kids,” said Ed Whiting, chief of the Taft Police Department. “We can’t thank them enough for what they did today.”

“This is a tragedy but not as bad as we think it might have been,” Kern County Sheriff Donny Youngblood said.

Jacob Jackson, a sophomore at Taft Union High School, was in the campus library when the intercom crackled Thursday morning, announcing a lockdown.

"We're supposed to have a lockdown drill next week. I thought it was a drill going early," Jacob, 15, said. "I figured out it was real whenever I heard the helicopter and sirens."

Shortly after 9 a.m., a shooting was reported at the science building, which is separate from where Jacob and his classmates sat for more than an hour, lights off, doors locked.

"I was just thinking, 'I don't want to die,' " Jacob said.

Authorities eventually moved the students and staff to an auditorium, but said they couldn't say what was going on. Rumors were flying, Jacob said, that someone had opened fire in a classroom.

A 16-year-old student was shot and wounded at the school, sheriff's officials said, and was in critical but stable condition. Authorities said the suspect, also a student, used a rifle and tried to shoot a second student but missed.

A third student was taken to an area hospital with possible hearing damage after the shotgun was fired close to her ear, authorities said. A fourth suffered minor injuries when she stumbled over a table.

Panicked parents rushed to the school. Many said they feared the worst after the Dec. 14 massacre at a Newtown, Conn., elementary school that killed 20 students and six adults.

Mary Jackson, Jacob's mother, works in the school district's food service department. She was in a junior high school kitchen two blocks away when she and her co-workers were told to lock the kitchen doors.

"My first instinct is my son," Jackson said. "I started bawling and fell to the floor."

She left the building and ran to the high school, where she heard that two students had been shot.

"How do I know it wasn't my son? It was horrible — I got a text from my son that said, 'I love you,' " she said. "I broke down. After about three hours, we finally got to talk."

Jackson said she's just glad her children — her daughter attends an elementary school next to Taft Union — are safe.

"It was a long, horrible, horrible feeling in my stomach that I wish on no one," she said.

When all the anti gun types post signs

There are anti-gun types?

Vice President Joe Biden butted heads with the powerful National Rifle Association on Thursday in his drive to reduce U.S. gun violence, drawing complaints from the lobby group that the White House is trying to limit constitutionally protected gun rights.

Biden sat down for about an hour and a half of talks with an NRA representative and officials from other gun owners' groups after telling reporters he is likely to recommend background checks for all gun buyers and a ban on high-capacity ammunition clips.

"It is unfortunate that this administration continues to insist on pushing failed solutions to our nation's most pressing problems. We will not allow law-abiding gun owners to be blamed for the acts of criminals and madmen," the NRA said in a statement after the meeting.

Biden is heading a task force on reducing gun violence formed after a gunman shot dead 20 children and six adults last month at a Connecticut elementary school. Biden said he will make recommendations to President Barack Obama by next Tuesday.

The strong reaction by the NRA, a lobbying organization known for its influence with many lawmakers of both parties, illustrated the difficulty of changing gun laws in a country long accustomed to being able to purchase firearms under relatively loose regulations.

The Biden task force is trying to reach a consensus on a set of recommendations quickly while there is still a mood for action in Congress after the shootings in Newtown, Connecticut.

Adding urgency to the gun debate, a student armed with a shotgun opened fire at a California high school on Thursday, critically wounding a fellow student before two adult staff members talked the boy into giving up his weapon.

Moving quickly for Washington, Biden plans to turn over recommendations to Obama after only a few weeks of work. Biden said there is only a "tight window" for action.

"There is nothing that has pricked the consciousness of the American people (and) there is nothing that has gone to the heart of the matter more than the image people have of little 6-year-old kids riddled - not shot, but riddled, riddled - with bullet holes in their classroom," Biden said.

Attorney General Eric Holder also held talks on Thursday with major retailers including Wal-Mart Stores Inc, the largest U.S. gun seller, as well as Bass Pro Shops and Dick's Sporting Goods.

The Biden task force is grappling with elements that go beyond gun control measures, also looking into aspects of American popular culture.

The group held talks on Thursday with representatives of the movie industry and will also hear on Friday from the video game business. Both industries routinely feature gun violence.

BACKGROUND CHECKS

Meeting earlier with hunting and outdoor sports groups, Biden said two of his task force's recommendations are likely to be universal background checks for gun purchasers and a ban on high-capacity ammunition clips like the ones used in the Connecticut massacre. The background check requirement would extend to all gun purchasers. This would close the "gun show loophole" in which vendors at open-air gun sales events can sell without a background check on the purchaser. It would also extend to private sales such as those conducted over the Internet. The task force might also propose a ban on assault weapons like the Bushmaster AR-15 rifle used by the gunman in Newtown.

"There's an emerging set of recommendations not coming from me, but coming from the groups we've met with," Biden said.

Biden's office had no substantive reaction to the NRA statement, issued less than an hour after the talks ended.

"We were disappointed with how little this meeting had to do with keeping our children safe and how much it had to do with an agenda to attack the Second Amendment," the NRA said.

"While claiming that no policy proposals would be 'prejudged,' this task force spent most of its time on proposed restrictions on lawful firearms owners - honest, taxpaying, hardworking Americans," the NRA added.

The NRA, which proposed after the Newtown shootings that armed security officers be stationed at U.S. schools, vowed to take "our commitment and meaningful contributions to members of Congress of both parties who are interested in having an honest conversation about what works - and what does not."

Obama will review the Biden group's ideas, decide which ones he wants to keep and then announce "a package of actions and proposals," the White House said. Obama will seek legislative action by Congress but may also try to get some of his objectives done through presidential executive orders.

U.S. lawmakers have not approved a major new gun law since 1994. A U.S. assault weapons ban lapsed in 2004.

More than a hundred scientists from virtually every major U.S. university told Biden's task force in a letter that research restrictions pushed by the NRA have stopped the United States from finding solutions to gun violence.

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has cut gun safety research by 96 percent since the mid-1990s, according to one estimate. Congress, pushed by the gun lobby, in 1996 put restrictions on CDC funding of gun research. Restrictions on other agencies were added in later years.

Biden said he would like federal agencies to have the ability to get information on what kind of weapons are used most to kill people and what kind of weapons are the most trafficked.

"I'm no great hunter - it's mostly skeet shooting for me - I don't quite understand why everybody would be afraid of whether or not we determine what is happening," he said.

Some journalists were allowed in for part of Biden's meeting with hunting groups such as Ducks Unlimited and Pheasants Forever. No such news coverage was arranged for the NRA meeting.