Bin Laden's Dead.

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blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
May 9, 2011 - 09:36pm PT
You swallowed the koolaid and now you've gone mad and even the people who mostly agree with you are embarrassed to have you on their side on this board. Pretend to have some equilibrium eh?

Who knows if any anonymous poster who acts over the top is "legitimate" (by that I mean voicing an honest opinion) or is just trolling, and may in fact be promoting views that are the opposite of what he/she truly believes.

I think it's possible that SUAP is pinko commie who is just ranting to embarrass "true" conservatives.
But I sometimes think the same about Palin, so it's hard to say.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
May 10, 2011 - 12:09am PT
SUAP,

You seem to think that all Dems, Progressives, Liberals, and Independents are enthralled with Obama. Got news for you, we aren't. He has turned out to be someone else other than the person who campaigned and made all those wonderful promises.

Like I said, he is the best Republican President since Eisenhower. I'm still waiting for the Change and Hope I Can Believe In. I thought I was voting for a Democrat who had progressive values like he talked about before becoming President.

I'm trying to determine who Obama really is. I do know that Zbigniew Brzezinski has been a huge influence on his policies (wow, grrrreeeeaaattt), and he has deep ties to Wall Street and the Bankers (hhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmm). (Read with dripping sarcasm). Webster Griffin Tarpley has a great deal to say about him. Wish I knew all this before the election. But what choice did we have? Maybe that was the point. We had no choice and "they" knew it.

See the difference between us and the Rethugs, GOPers, Neo-cons, Tea-Partiers etc., is that we can admit when the person we voted for is screwing up and less than what we hoped for.

You guys on the other hand worship at the feet of your heart-less elected or selected politicians no matter what.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
May 10, 2011 - 12:44am PT
Read who's book?

Obama's? Tarpley's? Someone else? Who?

Even if we didn't read any books regarding Obama, he is not who he said he was. He is not keeping his promises, and he is going nearly full-tilt in the other direction.

You know a man by what he does, not what he says.


Like I said, Obama is the best Republican President since Eisenhower.
shut up and pull

climber
May 10, 2011 - 01:07am PT
The book to read is "Radical in Chief"

An in-depth look at Obama's roots as a socialist.

He was a socialist, and is a socialist.

Steal money from the productive, redistribute to those that do not produce. That is his main focus. Oh - and apologize for America around the world, and redistribute our wealth to basketcase countries.
shut up and pull

climber
May 10, 2011 - 01:16am PT
Karl -- I like your perspective even tho we are on opposite sides of the political spectrum.

My core belief is basically traditional liberalism -- protection of individual liberties from the tyranny of the elite.

I believe the more government, the less freedom.

The GOP and their Dem friends have for years grown our governments to a point where freedom is seriously at risk.

The TEA party was the biggest breath of fresh air we have seen in a long time, and they led the shellacking of the Dems that was the biggest in 75 years. Oh -- and it really helped to have the Dems ram socialized medicine down our throats -- thanks.

I dont trust either party -- but I know one thing -- the Dems have gone plum crazy and I am really scared of them. At least the GOP mouths the right messages -- whether the TEA party can hold them to their promises remain to be seen.

The Dems are socialist/corporatist, period. They view big business as an ally to co-opt for their own use. Freedom is a distraction from the Dems' goal of "progress" -- meaning a Euro-welfare state where the individual is a stone to step on, not respect.
shut up and pull

climber
May 10, 2011 - 01:23am PT
What I wish liberals would do is admit they are marxist. Just admit it. Admit that they view earned income as something the state should take and give to those that did not earn it.

And then? You will see what true "liberalism" is all about -- destroying capitalist freedom in exchange for collectivism, a race to mediocrity. The Soviets tried that little experiment -- so did Pol Pot, Mao, and Castro. All failed. Why? Because man's first nature is to take care of himself, not others. So when government or dictators try and force men to first care for others through collectivist experiments, men refuse, and then the elite must "educate" them to be "politically correct." The story is the same, and has been repeated time and again last century. Whether you call it Fascism, Naziism, Communism, etc. -- the same theme pervades -- the state is your God, and you will obey.

Within every liberal today is a dictator waiting to get out. Its why you see so many liberals -- even Obama -- wishing they didnt have to deal with these messy things like free speech, or elections (unless, of course, it helps them). Its why Obama wished he could be like China's leaders.

Today's "liberalism" is not liberal at all -- it is the antithesis of liberalism. It strives for a continual growth of government taking control of our lives, through taxation, regulation, and speech control. To a liberal, no social problem is out of reach of the regulators.

Liberals used to stand for freedom. Now they stand for collectivist tyranny that is the rank opposite of the values America was founded upon.

shut up and pull

climber
May 10, 2011 - 01:29am PT
Klimmer -- the TEA party cannot stand the old GOP, and is remaking it from the inside by focusing on one main thing -- cutting spending.

THe Dems have never seen a government program that they didnt like -- except maybe national defense.

The TEA party is rooting out RINOs and kicking them to the curb. The RINOs, the repubs who speak conservatively but vote liberally, are toast.

As Obama said, you guys were shellacked last election -- the biggest sweep in 75 years. Why? TEA party.

The only reason either party is discussing the dire financial situation we are in is the TEA party. God bless em.
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
May 10, 2011 - 02:01am PT
SUAP, Can you name two or three countries among the 195 countries in the world that do things more to your liking than the United States?

Seems to me that all the ones doing really well have a more socialist system than we do.

Peace

Karl
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
May 10, 2011 - 02:02am PT
SUAP,


The Tea Party and their worship of the sociopath Ayn Rand are nuts . . .

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1472431/The-GOP-and-Tea-Partys-Love-Afair-with-Ayn-Rand-OT


Sorry, not what I want for America.



Most of America doesn't want that either, nor do they agree with the Tea Party philosophy when they really understand it, and the fact they are backed up with the rantings of Ayn Rand.

When they realize what you Tea-Partiers are all about they will run from you screaming. Tea Partiers lied to America and hid who they truly are, and were financed by the corrupt Billionaire Koch Brothers. The TPers are morally and ethically bankrupt. America doesn't want that. They only came to office by lying to and fooling the common people regarding who they really are. The TPers are wolves in sheep clothing.


The backers of the Tea Party: The Koch Brothers




Now we know. Recalls are moving forward and are going to happen soon. Many signatures are collected right now across the nation to do so.


The Truth About GOP Hero Ayn Rand – ThinkProgressVideo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7zwO88nRH8
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
May 10, 2011 - 02:34am PT
Why I doubt the latest assassination of OBL . . .


I'll just let Paul Watson list the reasons . . .




http://www.infowars.com/10-facts-that-prove-the-bin-laden-fable-is-a-contrived-hoax/
(actual article has many links to sources)



10 Facts That Prove The Bin Laden Fable Is a Contrived Hoax


Paul Joseph Watson
Infowars.com
May 9, 2011



Merely a week after President Obama announced the death of Osama Bin Laden, there is literally a deluge of evidence that clearly indicates the whole episode has been manufactured for political gain and to return Americans to a state of post-9/11 intellectual castration so that they can be easily manipulated in the run up to the 2012 election. Here are ten facts that prove the Bin Laden fable is a contrived hoax….

1) Before last Sunday’s raid, every intelligence analyst, geopolitical commentator or head of state worth their salt was on record as stating that Osama Bin Laden was already dead, and that he probably died many years ago, from veteran CIA officer Robert Baer, to former Pakistani Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto, to former FBI head of counterterrorism Dale Watson. In addition, back in 2002 Alex Jones was told directly by two separate high level sources that Bin Laden was already dead and that his death would be announced at the most politically opportune moment. Top US government insider Dr. Steve R. Pieczenik, a man who held numerous different influential positions under five different Presidents, serving as the Deputy Assistant Secretary of State under the Nixon, Ford and Carter, told the Alex Jones Show last week that Bin Laden died of marfan syndrome shortly after he was visited by CIA physicians at the American Hospital in Dubai in July 2001.

2) The official narrative of how the raid unfolded completely collapsed within days of its announcement. First there had been a 40 minute shootout, then there was no shootout and just one man was armed, first Bin Laden was armed then he was not, first Bin Laden used his wife as a human shield and then he did not. First the compound was described as a “$1 million dollar mansion” then it turned out to be a rubbish-strewn dilapidated compound that was worth less than a quarter of that. Almost every single aspect of the official narrative has changed since Obama first described the raid last Sunday as the White House struggles to keep its story straight.

3) The alleged body of Bin Laden was hastily dumped in the sea to prevent any proper procedure of identification. The White House claimed this was in accordance with normal Islamic burial rituals, however numerous Muslim scholars all over the globe disputed this claim, pointing out that Muslims can only be buried at sea if they die at sea. While the White House claimed that Bin Laden’s death on May 1st was proven by DNA and facial recognition evidence, such proof was never released for public scrutiny and the Obama administration refused to release photos of Bin Laden’s dead body, suggesting a cover-up.

4) Despite the fact that the White House released “situation room” photos which purported to show Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden and the rest of Obama’s security staff watching the raid which killed Bin Laden live, it was later admitted by CIA director Leon Panetta that Obama could not have seen the raid because the live feed was cut off before the Navy SEALS entered the compound. The photos were described by many as having “historical significance,” forming a “captivating” record of Obama’s greatest success and being the “defining moment” of his Presidency. One image showed Hillary Clinton with her hand over her mouth as if witnessing an anxious or crucial moment in the raid. Media reports at the time claimed that the photos represented the moment when “The leader of the free world saw the terror chief shot in the left eye.” However, the photos were staged as a PR stunt for public consumption, nobody in the photos ever saw Bin Laden killed live, nor did they see the Navy SEALS even enter the compound.

5) As even mainstream journalists began to cast suspicion on the official narrative behind the raid, the media reported that Al-Qaeda itself had confirmed every detail of Obama’s address the the nation. However, the conduit for such a claim was in fact an organization called SITE, which is a notorious Pentagon propaganda front run by the daughter of an Israeli spy that has been caught on numerous occasions releasing fake cartoonish “Al-Qaeda” videos at the most politically expedient times for both the Bush and Obama administrations. The SITE organization is nothing more than a contractor for the U.S. government, receiving some $500,000 a year annually from Uncle Sam, and yet the corporate media instantly swallowed and regurgitated the claim that “Al-Qaeda” had confirmed the official story after SITE directed them to an anonymous posting on an Islamic website.


6) Almost every single neighbor that lived near the alleged Bin Laden compound in Abbottabad that was interviewed by news reporters said with absolute certainty that they had never seen Bin Laden and that they knew of no evidence whatsoever to suggest he lived there. Since the town is a staging ground for the Pakistani military, which has a training facility situated virtually a stone’s throw away from the alleged Bin Laden compound, residents were required to show ID when they moved into the area. Pakistani troops and anti-terror police in the town refused to confirm that Bin Laden had lived in the house. Barack Obama himself admitted to 60 Minutes that the White House was only 55/45 sure that Osama lived there before the raid and this uncertainty prompted concerns that the US Navy SEALS sent in could have targeted a “prince from Dubai” or some other individual that was not Bin Laden.

7) The videos released by the White House this past weekend which purport to show Osama Bin Laden making Al-Qaeda tapes in October-November 2010 are almost identical to footage first released by Pentagon front group SITE nearly four years ago. Remember, a May 2010 Washington Post story reported how the CIA had admitted to making fake Bin Laden videos. Despite the White House’s insistence that the footage of Bin Laden is recent, he looks younger and healthier than tapes released almost a decade ago, having apparently dyed his beard black. A separate video that purports to show Bin Laden in his compound flicking through satellite TV channels depicts a much older looking man with a gray beard. Analysts have pointed out that the man has different shaped ears to real Osama pictures from back in 2001. A doctor has also pointed out the fact that the man in the tapes released Saturday has no problem moving his left arm, whereas video from 2001 clearly illustrates how Bin Laden was unable to move his left upper extremity because of a permanent injury probably related to damage to the peripheral nerves. Why the cameraman would film the back of Bin Laden’s head as he watches television is also dubious. Residents in the town of Abbottabad claim the man in the “television” video is not Osama, with one individual claiming that the man labeled by the White House as being Bin Laden is actually his neighbor, a man named Akhbar Han.


8) Despite the fact that numerous neo-cons came out on the days after the alleged raid to erroneously assert that torturing terror suspects at Guantanamo Bay led to the discovery of Bin Laden, Osama himself, the supposed world’s most wanted terrorist and a treasure trove of terror information, despite the fact that he was unarmed, was not taken in for questioning, he was instantly shot in the head according to the official narrative.

9) The US government has been caught on several occasions within the past decade staging military operations for the purposes of generating contrived, pro-war sentiment amongst the American public. Both the “rescue” of Jessica Lynch and the death of Pat Tillman were complete fables, scripted and staged at complete odds with the truth and unleashed on Americans as part of a psychological warfare offensive to elicit support for the war on terror, almost identical to what we’re seeing now with the Bin Laden sideshow. Given the fact that the US government has been caught red-handed scripting tales of pure fiction in order to justify the war on terror, notably in the cases of Jessica Lynch and Pat Tillman, why on earth should we believe them now?

10) Despite the fact that Obama announced last Sunday on live television that the world was now “safer” because Bin Laden was dead, his administration, with the aid of the fearmongering mass media, instantly seized upon the situation to terrify Americans into being afraid of imminent “reprisal” terror attacks inside the United States, later claiming that Bin Laden had formulated an “aspirational rather than operational” plan to derail US trains that travel over 500mph, although no trains in the US can actually travel at such speeds. This led “terror experts” to salivate over how TSA agents were now needed in shopping malls to stick their hands down Americans’ pants, while New York Senator Chuckie Schumer called for the no fly list to be expanded to trains and subways. Obama hurried to ground zero for a photo op as he desperately tried to use the Bin Laden hoax to whip up phony patriotism as a means of boosting his flagging poll numbers. Others, like Democrat Bill Richardson, exploited the situation to try and push through policies that had no connection to Bin Laden or terrorism at all, like cap and trade. The haste with which the whole Bin Laden fable was exploited for political points scoring and as a psychological ploy to return Americans to a post-9/11 state of intellectual castration was painfully transparent, clearly suggesting that the entire farce was planned well in advance to achieve precisely those goals in the run up to 2012.



Paul Joseph Watson is the editor and writer for Prison Planet.com. He is the author of Order Out Of Chaos. Watson is also a regular fill-in host for The Alex Jones Show.
Port

Trad climber
San Diego
May 10, 2011 - 02:39am PT
I love the names of Klimmer's sources....

INFOWARS!
PRISON PLANET!
DEMORATICUNDERGROUND!
9/11 TRUTH!

And that he thinks funny photoshop pictures help to support his argument.


I also love that SUAP and Klimmer will now continue to intellectually jerk each other off for the next 50 posts.
corniss chopper

climber
breaking the speed of gravity
May 10, 2011 - 02:45am PT
The Liberal Progressives screamed in happiness,

"There's maiming and killing afoot. Screaming and cursing, clatter of swords, bang of guns. Faces distorted with pain and hate. It's terrifying, but it is to be expected when led by such a mighty Lord as Obama!









Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
May 10, 2011 - 02:47am PT
Truth is where you find it.



Port,

I suppose you worship and get all your news at FAUX News, am I right?
Port

Trad climber
San Diego
May 10, 2011 - 03:14am PT
Port,

I suppose you worship and get all your news at FAUX News, am I right?

Lol, not at all. You'd be surprised how much we agree on things Klimmer.

Just not on God, government, conspiracy, and science.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
May 10, 2011 - 08:42am PT
Gary

climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
May 10, 2011 - 10:09am PT
Steal money from the productive, redistribute to those that do not produce.

Karl Marx wrote volumes of books about capitalism, and SUAP here just boiled all that down to a dozen words. Brilliant! That's the most concise definition of capitalism ever. Mind if I use that, SUAP?
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Swimming in LEB tears.
May 10, 2011 - 10:35am PT
Klimmer said
You seem to think that all Dems, Progressives, Liberals, and Independents are enthralled with Obama. Got news for you, we aren't. He has turned out to be someone else other than the person who campaigned and made all those wonderful promises.


Which promises? I have several friends who have this attitude and most of their complaints are about things that he promised TO do (like commit more troops to Afghanistan and make the Afghanistan/Pakistan border our focus in the "war on terror") or about things that he has little power to actually control (like trying Guantanamo detainees in the States). If you actually respond to this post, please leave anything sourced at Infowars or about Arks on the moon. Thanks.
Gary

climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
May 10, 2011 - 11:30am PT
I think people were discombobulated by the idea of a president who could actually speak in complete sentences.
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
May 10, 2011 - 12:30pm PT
I have no idea what the real truth is via Bin Laden. I've been reading all sides, but have posted links and references, many of then from major networks for the different perspectives I've put out there.

There may be some exaggerations in the article of Watson that Klimmer posted at

http://www.infowars.com/10-facts-that-prove-the-bin-laden-fable-is-a-contrived-hoax/

but it's worth considering those points (which also have links and references) if you are inclined to buy the party line hook, line and sinker. Those who want to cry Tin Foil Hat without considering any evidence are intellectual cowards, particularly after the government itself has been plainly and demonstrably (By mainstream standards mind you) caught in boldfaced lies for the sake of propaganda in the Lynch, Tilman and other operations.

Now it's possible that Bin Laden as alive and some Generals and Highly placed people decided that spreading the rumour that he was dead served some purpose and was picked up by sources cited in that piece. That would also raise questions about why Government and military people would want us to think Bin Laden was dead (even as we continued to search for him sort of)

Peace

Karl
klk

Trad climber
cali
May 10, 2011 - 12:31pm PT
this is still going?

i hear the 3d generation anti-psychotics have a lot fewer side effects than the thorazine.


maybe cmac can solicit volunteers to do comparison review for ST.
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