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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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Nov 12, 2016 - 01:30pm PT
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. . . this from the website that MH2 points us to:
Figures of speech (or 'rhetorical tropes') are ways of using words that may seem unusual but have a specific and desired effect.
The following can also be found at the top of the same page:
“Changing Minds: How we change what others think, feel, believe and do.
1. Who are you or what is this website that takes it upon itself to change anyone’s mind?
2. I’d like to challenge the assertion that any word has “a specific and desired effect.” Show me the data.
EDIT: "Changing a mind" is also metaphorical. First is all one would have to find a "mind"--which is, what?
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Nov 12, 2016 - 03:11pm PT
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Was this a hallucination? Was it an experience? Does it matter?
The mind is truly amazing. So many mental states are possible, from the Art of Dreaming to non-differentiability of objects to conversations with Jesus to empty awareness to psychedelic lifetimes and more. Of these I consider normal, rational consciousness to be of greatest value. But that's just me.
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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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Nov 12, 2016 - 04:14pm PT
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It is good to have you along for the ride, Psilo.
Your ability to pass through solid walls unruffled by absurdity could be useful on our next bank job.
It is also good to know that your mind is made of swirling energy and travels the stars. My own is a kludge of neurons and dissected frog parts that keeps bumping its ass on the ground.
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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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Nov 12, 2016 - 04:17pm PT
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1. Who are you or what is this website that takes it upon itself to change anyone’s mind?
It doesn't matter. Every experience you have changes your mind.
2. I’d like to challenge the assertion that any word has “a specific and desired effect.” Show me the data.
See above.
EDIT: "Changing a mind" is also metaphorical. First is all one would have to find a "mind"--which is, what?
Simply put: neurons.
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Nov 12, 2016 - 04:18pm PT
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Your ability to pass through solid walls unruffled
After over forty years I still have a strong memory of doing just that while Lucid Dreaming, sans the LSD. It was like walking through thick fog and then coming out the other side. I know it wasn't real, but the memory is the same as if it had been. So much for relying on memory in a jury trial.
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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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Nov 12, 2016 - 04:21pm PT
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I know it wasn't real, but the memory is the same as if it had been.
This is a good commentary on what mind is.
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 12, 2016 - 04:29pm PT
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I know it wasn't real ....
Were you dead then?
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Nov 12, 2016 - 07:16pm PT
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The mind is, in Native American parlance, a trickster, capable of the most bizarre effects, including soaring on astral planes and perceiving no-thing. Once one departs the conscious, rational state not a lot of confidence is warranted.
PSP's take, however, demonstrates a beneficial grace bestowed by meditation.
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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Nov 13, 2016 - 08:09am PT
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Duck: Were you dead then?
Hilarious. Insightful.
MH2: Every experience you have changes your mind.
Jgill: Once one departs the conscious, rational state not a lot of confidence is warranted.
I assume you are both speaking for what you perceive as your minds. You have little basis (none, really) for saying what other people’s minds are or do. (It’s a scientific point of view I’m making here.) :-)
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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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Nov 13, 2016 - 10:17am PT
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It’s a scientific point of view I’m making here.
Studies of the anatomy and physiology of the nervous system will show you how it changes during experiences. Some of the changes are short-lived and others are lasting.
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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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Nov 13, 2016 - 10:23am PT
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A journey into the mind of Homie, the part-existential dog
The rain fell.
The boughs of the fir trees sighed as the wind bent them.
It was an endless pointless futile meaningless walk to nowhere.
THEN WE SAW A SQUIRREL!!!
No, we did not.
But we could have.
Gavin passed us again, on his way back from somewhere.
“You have a very meditative pace,” he said.
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John Black
Social climber
Boulder, CO
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Nov 13, 2016 - 11:28am PT
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The problem with understanding the mind, is that we have no choice but to use one to study it.
Machine intelligence will almost certainly surpass our own in the next 10-50 years. Perhaps machines will explain our minds to us, if our meager apparatus can grasp the explanation.
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Nov 13, 2016 - 02:02pm PT
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The problem with understanding the mind, is that we have no choice but to use one to study it
I don't know how many times I've brought up on this thread the problems arising from self-referential studies.
Nice fog, Sycorax.
Duck: Were you dead then?
Hilarious. Insightful.
Insightful? Please explain.
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i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
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Nov 13, 2016 - 02:46pm PT
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Here's another way...
Meditation: A Key to Hearing God
Psalm 19:7-14
Meditation means different things to different people. For some, it is a time of introspection and self-empowerment. To Christians, however, meditation has an altogether different meaning. And despite the various ways the word is used, it is something we believers must take seriously in our walk of faith.
Simply put, meditation is the practice of thinking about God in all of His fullness, and asking questions such as:
• Who is God?
• How does He work in my life?
• What does Scripture say about Him?
• How has He shown faithfulness to me?
• How has He made Himself known?
When we meditate on the Word of God, His Spirit directs our thinking as we seek earnestly to know Him better. Often, the discipline will include wrestling with spiritual principles, which the Lord uses to build a firm foundation in our life. It may even involve a time of repentance, as He reveals truth and moves us to yearn for a Christ-centered mindset. Or, meditation could lead to healing if God shows us areas of our heart that need His touch. When we take time to set our mind on Him, the Lord will direct our thoughts.
This week, reserve a half-hour to sit quietly or take a walk. Dedicate that time to focusing your attention on God and letting Him speak to you. You will find this pause in your routine rewarding and exciting as you give yourself over to His presence.https://www.intouch.org/read/magazine/daily-devotions/meditation-a-key-to-hearing-god
"And it came to pass in those days, that he went out into a mountain to pray, and continued all night in prayer to God."
Luke 6:12
If ever one of woman born might have lived without prayer, it was our spotless, perfect Lord, and yet none was ever so much in supplication as he! Such was his love to his Father, that he loved much to be in communion with him: such his love for his people, that he desired to be much in intercession for them. The fact of this eminent prayerfulness of Jesus is a lesson for us--he hath given us an example that we may follow in his steps. The time he chose was admirable, it was the hour of silence, when the crowd would not disturb him; the time of inaction, when all but himself had ceased to labour; and the season when slumber made men forget their woes, and cease their applications to him for relief. While others found rest in sleep, he refreshed himself with prayer. The place was also well selected. He was alone where none would intrude, where none could observe: thus was he free from Pharisaic ostentation and vulgar interruption. Those dark and silent hills were a fit oratory for the Son of God. Heaven and earth in midnight stillness heard the groans and sighs of the mysterious Being in whom both worlds were blended. The continuance of his pleadings is remarkable; the long watches were not too long; the cold wind did not chill his devotions; the grim darkness did not darken his faith, or loneliness check his importunity. We cannot watch with him one hour, but he watched for us whole nights. The occasion for this prayer is notable; it was after his enemies had been enraged--prayer was his refuge and solace; it was before he sent forth the twelve apostles--prayer was the gate of his enterprise, the herald of his new work. Should we not learn from Jesus to resort to special prayer when we are under peculiar trial, or contemplate fresh endeavours for the Master's glory? Lord Jesus, teach us to pray.
CHARLES SPURGEON
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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Nov 13, 2016 - 06:20pm PT
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MH2: Studies of the anatomy and physiology of the nervous system will show you how it changes during experiences. Some of the changes are short-lived and others are lasting.
Perhaps . . . the nervous system. Not mind.
It would seem far less significant if the website boasted: “Changing Nervous Systems”
Jgill:
Everything is real.
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Nov 13, 2016 - 07:35pm PT
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Word play . . . weak sauce
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Nov 13, 2016 - 07:54pm PT
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Serendipity?
I just checked in and discovered that mind is neurons.
I'll be back to see how the filing in of the details goes.
I would surmise that it gets pretty hairy.
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Nov 13, 2016 - 08:34pm PT
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^^^^ Holy smoke!
Overwhelming.
Margaret Boden
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