What is "Mind?"

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Psilocyborg

climber
Nov 10, 2016 - 10:12pm PT
My mind looks like the spaceship in flight of the navigator, except made of pure swirling energy.
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Nov 11, 2016 - 02:10am PT
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Nov 11, 2016 - 02:24am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
BUY DIAMONDS ~ and Gold Coins that can be secreted away, it is how my and
wife's families were able to escape the camps and make to the day light.
There may be no where to run this time [Click to View YouTube Video]
there may be no such place of freedom.
But one must learn from history or be doomed . .,. .[Click to View YouTube Video]
paul roehl

Boulder climber
california
Nov 11, 2016 - 06:52am PT
“In the dawn there is a man progressing over the plain by
means of holes which he is making in the ground. He uses
an implement with two handles and he chucks it into the
hole and he enkindles the stone in the hole with his steel
hole by hole striking the fire out of the rock which God has
put there. On the plain behind him are the wanderers in
search of bones and those who do not search and they move
haltingly in the light like mechanisms whose movements are
monitored with escapement and pallet so that they appear
restrained by a prudence or reflectiveness which has no
inner reality and they cross in their progress one by one
that track of holes that runs to the rim of the visible ground
and which seems less the pursuit of some continuance than
the verification of a principle, a validation of sequence and
causality as if each round and perfect hole owed its existence
to the one before it there on that prairie upon which
are the bones and the gatherers of bones and those who do
not gather. He strikes fire in the hole and draws out his
steel. Then they all move on again.” C.M.
MH2

Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
Nov 11, 2016 - 08:40am PT
Kind of a grim description of bolting on El Cap, Mr. McCarthy.
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado & Nepal
Nov 11, 2016 - 09:16am PT
If the void lies behind the curtain jgill, you've got the wrong colors there. They should be bluish purple and white.

Basic chakra theory.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 11, 2016 - 02:34pm PT
So long as you try and conjure an idea or image of void, or nothingness, you are trying to posit nothing as an external object you can either see or not see, some absence that somehow is "there."

That's all the discursive mind can do, is to think this ways, but the mind has other modes. No-mind is one term that hints at non-it.

Language is quite slipper in this regards because it, along with objective (re: objects) thinking is not fashioned to handle absence.

chainsaw

Trad climber
CA
Nov 11, 2016 - 02:40pm PT
My reply doesnt deserve to come after John's, but here it is. There is no absence or void. When the mind is completely at rest, the natural world and all its mysteries reveal themselves. A wellspring of divine inspiration that reveals knowlege of the universe like an am radio station waiting for us to tune in.
WBraun

climber
Nov 11, 2016 - 04:12pm PT
There is no absence or void.
When the mind is completely at rest, the natural world and all its mysteries reveal themselves.
A wellspring of divine inspiration that reveals knowledge of the universe like an am radio station waiting for us to tune in.

Yes .... this is very nice description ......
jgill

Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
Nov 11, 2016 - 04:16pm PT
That's all the discursive mind can do, is to think this ways, but the mind has other modes. No-mind is one term that hints at non-it

I agree. No doubt meditative experiences reveal a different perspective. But what they reveal is more spiritual than worldly-productive. There truly is "nothing" there other than a glimpse of the nature of one's "I" and a feeling of connectivity. It all goes nowhere.

And that's OK.

Powerful piece, Sycorax.
PSP also PP

Trad climber
Berkeley
Nov 11, 2016 - 06:27pm PT
J Gill said "But what they reveal is more spiritual than worldly-productive" "It all goes nowhere."

"And that's OK."

The "No-mind" is the mind before thinking ZM Seung Sahn called it the "don't know mind" Suzuki Roshi called it "Beginners mind" it is a mind without answers, of great wonder and curious and completely undistracted.

You arrive at this undistracted experience where things just are as they are and you have no need to label them with words or judgments. You say this goes no where, but to let go of the typical distractions of fear, anger and desire you arrive at a place of peace. You literally are practicing being at peace; this can carry over into your everyday life and help create peace for you and those you relate to.

That is the purpose of meditation.

WBraun

climber
Nov 11, 2016 - 06:53pm PT
That is the purpose of meditation.


No ... that is the purpose of "Zen Meditation".

It goes much farther than that .....
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 11, 2016 - 08:38pm PT
My reply doesnt deserve to come after John's, but here it is. There is no absence or void.


Pretty much what I said. If there "was" a void, it would be an object or thing we could measure. It is not "there" in the sense you are speaking of. But neither are the objects.
jgill

Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
Nov 11, 2016 - 09:09pm PT
Pretty much what I said. If there "was" a void, it would be an object or thing we could measure. It is not "there" in the sense you are speaking of

OK, sounds good.



But then you had to add

But neither are the objects


Here we go again. The moon is not up there as a distinct object. It is connected with everything in some sort of cosmic blur. It doesn't exist when you are not looking at it, etc., etc., . . .

And if the goal of meditation is to attain a state of peaceful existence then it is of little use while searching for "mind." May as well go into psychoanalysis or simply go to sleep.


I still have hopes that some day we will find out about the mysterious MetaMind project. I am convinced that Dean Radin of the Noetic Institute is behind this considerable and worthy effort. I have faith.
MH2

Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
Nov 11, 2016 - 10:09pm PT
Pretty much what I said. If there "was" a void, it would be an object or thing we could measure. It is not "there" in the sense you are speaking of. But neither are the objects.


People easily make absurd statements, or at least say things without much explanation of what they mean.

However, if we put a blindfold on someone, they are not likely to walk into a busy street. Your brain will come to your rescue when your mind has been playing with the truth, usually.

A good warning sign is when a person puts words in common use inside quote marks.
Psilocyborg

climber
Nov 11, 2016 - 11:41pm PT
Absurd? Explanation? Seems clear as a bell to me
MikeL

Social climber
Southern Arizona
Nov 12, 2016 - 06:25am PT
Jgill & MH2:

Perhaps there is nothing that is literal. Bracketing words or concepts might make a recognition of that stand. (It’s a typical postmodern move.) Maybe nothing can be explained (certainly not literally), and indeed that would seem to present absurdity, in a conventional sense—but not in an absolute sense. In an absolute sense, the current narrative of physical / material / objective reality is no less absurd as any spiritual narrative of reality. To call a spiritual narrative absurd would seem to present a single-minded, consensual view of reality.

In all events here, we seem to be talking in metaphors, in images, in narratives, with our own visions expressively. Every one the above expressions is very nice.

What kind of universe could entertain multiple and even conflicting narratives, images, and metaphors about itself?

Explanations are, well, . . . nice. So are other expressions. It portends a wonder-full world where each points to what this is.
MH2

Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
Nov 12, 2016 - 08:53am PT
A lot of mention of metaphor. We should expand our minds.


http://changingminds.org/techniques/language/figures_speech/figures_speech_alpha.htm


Clear as a bell is which kind of figure of speech?
WBraun

climber
Nov 12, 2016 - 09:01am PT
Psilocyborg

climber
Nov 12, 2016 - 01:06pm PT
The above quote reminds me if something, a story I have shared here more than once. One night when I was a silly teenager I took a very large dose of LSD. I don't even know the dose, it was a pile of shredded paper in tin foil I bought from a friend for 5$ who had just returned from dead tour(1993?) I went home right as it was kicking in as it started getting way out there. I spent the entire trip alone in bed, no sound,and no lights (was afraid of waking up my parents). What transpired that night was indescribable.

I lived lifetimes....even eternities in alien dimensions. As actual aliens with completely alien physics, everything top to bottom. I remember in a couple of these something would nag at me that I was actually something else. These trips went on for decades. I was popping in and out of my body. I have no idea how much real time was passing because the alarm clock was unreadable. The last one of these I was simply everything, or the underlying energy of everything. I spent an eternity in/as this. It was rife with energy, frequency, and vibration. Being everything it was unchanging and unchangeable. Change was not in its reality. Yet not static, or dynamic, but beyond that.

Only when I became human again did I have a frame of reference for this. I cannot tell you how relieved I was to be separate from everything and be still, quiet, calm....human. I could and still am able to remember some of the experience. It did sort of resemble in some way the spaceship in Flight of the Navigator. I can remember how it "felt" to be "it". I cannot say it was good or bad especially at the time it was just the way things were, but it was better to be human, and separate. To be it was just too much.

After that I layer down next to the record player and listened to the white album over and over without speakers. That was a whole other trip.

Was this a hallucination? Was it an experience? Does it matter?
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