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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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So it was startling to suddenly shift with no warning into another personality. And to make matters worse I felt I was actually being pulled into another being. With an effort I resisted and found myself "myself" again, but with a memory of the experience.
At first I thought this could be low dopamine levels due to a compromised light environment, that is if it could be proven you were still awake! But it could be much deeper and involve some interesting undercurrents-- and not necessarily of a negative nature. You need to launch an FBI investigation into your psyche Mr. JGill. Good luck and happy surfing.
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i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
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"And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away: so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."
Matthew 24:39
Universal was the doom, neither rich nor poor escaped: the learned and the illiterate, the admired and the abhorred, the religious and the profane, the old and the young, all sank in one common ruin. Some had doubtless ridiculed the patriarch--where now their merry jests? Others had threatened him for his zeal which they counted madness--where now their boastings and hard speeches? The critic who judged the old man's work is drowned in the same sea which covers his sneering companions. Those who spoke patronizingly of the good man's fidelity to his convictions, but shared not in them, have sunk to rise no more, and the workers who for pay helped to build the wondrous ark, are all lost also. The flood swept them all away, and made no single exception. Even so, out of Christ, final destruction is sure to every man of woman born; no rank, possession, or character, shall suffice to save a single soul who has not believed in the Lord Jesus. My soul, behold this wide-spread judgment and tremble at it.
How marvellous the general apathy! they were all eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, till the awful morning dawned. There was not one wise man upon earth out of the ark. Folly duped the whole race, folly as to self-preservation--the most foolish of all follies. Folly in doubting the most true God--the most malignant of fooleries. Strange, my soul, is it not? All men are negligent of their souls till grace gives them reason, then they leave their madness and act like rational beings, but not till then.
All, blessed be God, were safe in the ark, no ruin entered there. From the huge elephant down to the tiny mouse all were safe. The timid hare was equally secure with the courageous lion, the helpless cony as safe as the laborious ox. All are safe in Jesus. My soul, art thou in him?
CHARLES SPURGEON
Exodus 34:6 Then the Lord passed by in front of him and proclaimed, “The Lord, the Lord God, compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in lovingkindness and truth; 7 who keeps lovingkindness for thousands, who forgives iniquity, transgression and sin; yet He will by no means leave the guilty unpunished
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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jgill, maybe you had contact with another personality not of the flesh or of the flesh but not in the flesh. "Channeling" or perhaps a simple spirit possession. If it happens again, just ask who it is and wtf they are doing and to go away if your intentions are not honorable. Otherwise you are probably just losing your mind, but at least you knew who you were and that it wasn't you. A good start to grand adventure. ;)
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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Jgill:
Things seem to get really weird sometimes, don’t they? Currently for me, it’s synchronicity. Everything that seems to be turning up seems connected in a web of coincidence. (If everything is One, then there will be infinite correlations as far as the “I” can see.)
You write about getting into another body, and I have similar issues that arose for me from a play last night.
Last night we viewed L.A. Theatre Works’ “Judgement at Nuremberg.” I was dreading the play: I expected it to be very political, overly dramatic, heavy, surely ponderous. It could have been downright deadly. How was I going to stay awake after a full day at school and then a drink with students afterwards? At first, my wife and I arrived at the wrong venue, and I was hoping that would be my out, but the right venue was only blocks away. We had to attend. Uhhh.
Surprise, surprise. It was one of the best plays I’ve seen. I was sorry for it to finish. The presentation was as a radio theatre, with actors in costume, some playing more than one part, standing behind microphones presenting their lines with feeling, miming some of the movements, always directly toward the audience. When a scene would turn intimate, actors would move forward to microphones closer to the audience at the edge of the stage. It was surprising how effective the acting and the set-up was.
The content was relevant. I wondered about the context in which the play was written as opposed to how the script might have changed (initially presented as a CBS Playhouse 90 drama in 1959 during the cold war, it was later presented as a movie in 1961 with a big set of famous actors and actresses). See http://www.latw.org/Tour/tour/nuremberg.html for a brief description of the issues. You could relate to Obama’s recent veto with regards to a law enabling suing the Saudi’s purported role in 9/11.) The play brings up a list of vicious political, psychological, and social dilemmas.
After the presentation, the actors changed and sat on stage for questions from audience members. They sensed and appreciated our engagement (even though we were a small audience due to the broadcast of game 6 of World Series at the same time).
I wanted to ask a question, but I could not articulate it well enough last night. Now I can.
A few famous actors are known for their immersion into a role, especially in movies. Daniel Day Lewis is one example; so is Christian Bale, I hear. Lewis has been known to drop himself in a role and character and stay in it until a movie was completed. (“Lincoln” is one movie that comes to mind.) Actors seem to have a capacity for plasticity by the very nature of their job. The actors last night will stay with this play for about 4 months as they tour the U.S. (See the URL above for their venues.) Then they’ll look for new roles in other plays. After a few years of this, they will have played many roles—at all times, attempting to be “an advocate for their characters.”
My question would have been: does playing all of these different roles over the years help you to know more about who and what you are, . . . or less? Don’t some of those characters seep into their identity and change them? In the end, what and who do they make themselves to be?
Jgill, would your experience seem just a little less strange or less disquieting if you *meant to* occupy another body (or even occupy another identity in the same body)? I mean, “strangeness” is the issue you’re most focused upon, isn’t it? You don’t normally go around trying to be or put yourself into other people’s bodies or lives.
This seems a prime reason why many folks shy away from what could be considered spiritual. It just seems and feels weird, . . . but gosh, how many things aren’t? Normalcy tends to be comforting. Ask anyone who’s attempted to lead a change effort with other people. From my bailiwick, that which is different or a real departure from “what I’m used to” will be resisted forcefully, insidiously, even unconsciously.
There is no equilibrium. There is no solid state. It just looks like it the moment that one makes an observation. Everything else before and after get smoothed-over and averaged-out. Wanna see how entrenched people’s beliefs, norms, and values are in their world? Put on your armor, poke their hidden assumptions, and then stand way back.
Be well.
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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I enjoy reading these subjective experiences or forays of mind. It is where the rubber meets the road. One can read all the science or philosophy or woo they want but the actual experience of mind outside the box or bubble is more fascinating and even edifying than comparing literature without actual experience, and to have those experiences without taking the obvious step to value judgement.
Fly on, Little Wing...
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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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“Work” is full engagement with reality
Thank you for the warning. I'll try to avoid this "Work."
Reality is an important and busy word with a full appointment calendar, and doing face-to-face with me would be a waste of its precious time.
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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Thank you for the warning. I'll try to avoid this "Work."
Reality is an important and busy word with a full appointment calendar, and doing face-to-face with me would be a waste of its precious time.
lol and yes, that consensus that some call reality is a busy word and I am ready to retire from work as we know it. Is work fun or is fun work? Can we have our cake and eat it too? And if so, is anybody going to listen if we are really saying anything with our silence?
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Mike, I thought "Judgement at Nuremberg" was a terrific movie. I watched part of it a couple of weeks ago, maybe on TCM. Did you know that Robert H. Jackson, who was the chief prosecutor at Nuremberg and a supreme court justice, was not a certified lawyer (in the modern sense)? He only had one year of law school.
I wonder if there are instances of actors who in essence lose their own personalities and become human chameleons, going from one role to another? Or what of actors who make their lives about portraying a famous person, like Mark Twain or Winston Churchill? To what extent is our individual psyche a mix or blend of characteristics rather than a unified whole? The expression "having it together" assumes a more ominous tone.
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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"Judgement at Nuremberg" What an excellent movie with Spencer Tracey. A kind of "the banality of evil" story. Sometimes your own wrongdoing appears to be appropriate and keeping the proper perspective in order to see/understand that requires remarkable discipline. What's more noble than to be human and to struggle for virtue?
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WBraun
climber
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Mind is World Series Baseball game 7 .....
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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If a character appears in literature how likely is it that they are based on a real person with whom the writer is familiar? Or a composite of several such persons? Can there be any other way a fictional (real life - not fantasy) character emerges upon the page?
And, yes, I was well aware Hal Holbrook didn't meld into Twain. Thanx. Us labcoats not bein that stoopid. We not bein Ducks.
;>\
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado & Nepal
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Hey don't disparage ducks. They're smarter than turkeys.
I'm sure I've written on shamanism before and noted that the interpretations of it reflect the academic fashions of the time (shades of MikeL's argument) but have not solved what has been a topic of controversy in Anthropology for over 150 years now. They have been explained as tricksters out for power, as schizophrenics though many acquire their special abilities long after the age at which that disease appears, and finally, as a real phenomenon that science doesn't know about. The latter started in the 1960's when anthropologists started apprenticing themselves to shamans, some of whom used mind altering drugs and most of whom did not. A co-relation has also been made between social outcastes such as Untouchables and women and the likelihood of being possessed by locally known gods who then raise the status of the person.
In some cases, possession is used as a personal or social weapon. Such was a woman in my Hindu village who became so possessed that her husband had to spend a lot of money on her for shamans and the young second wife he had just taken, had to do all the fieldwork. She shook continuously night and day yet stopped long enough to give us a big smile when we asked who did her work now and she said "the second wife".
I have many other stories of shamans and possession from Nepal. One of the more intriguing happened to the son of the local schoolteacher who was a high caste Hindu with a master's degree who didn't believe in such superstitions until his son became possessed. The parents had an arranged marriage. He was educated and his wife was illiterate. He ate chicken and eggs which are taboo to orthodox Brahmins, so their kitchen had a line down the middle and he had to sit on one side with the children while the wife and his aunties sat with the sacred fire on the other. Food was passed over the ridge but could not be handed directly as then the polluted person's impurity would pass through the food into the pure person and onto the sacred fire.
The little boy began shaking every full moon and then more often, his pulse and a high fever went up and down during this time. He was taken to local clinics and then the international teaching hospital in Kathmandu which could find nothing organically
wrong.
Finally, in desperation, the father called a reknowned shaman of a tribal ethnic group called Sunyasi. The shaman chanted and went into a trance and then he and little boy began speaking in a tribal language completely different than Nepali. No one could understand them but they understood each other.
Later, after coming out of his trance, the shaman told the father, "Your people stole this land from a tribal group called Rai, and your son is possessed by the ghost of the Rai man who used to own this property". Rather than doing an exorcism, he negotiated with the spirit, explaining the father was educating all the boys in the village, treating all castes and tribes fairly and alike, so he should not attack that family but find another one instead.
After that, the little boy became an orthodox Hindu, went through a purification ceremony and now eats with his mother and aunties in the pure half of the kitchen while father and daughters and guests eat in the other half.
Analyse away!
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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Jgill:
I’ve looked all over for the movie and have only found it on YouTube in poor shape. I didn’t realize or remember it being such a long film (179 minutes).
MH2:
Yes! Peter Sellers is a great example. Perhaps the exemplar par excellence. He always struck me as a sad individual. Peter Sellers and Robin Williams . . . two very strange beings.
Jan: Analyse away!
Ha-ha.
Were you trained in the UK or by UK-trained personnel? (That spelling is not an American convention.)
Thanks for the story. It’s nice to hear from someone who’s of the field. Like I said (I think), I’m interested in the extent to which the practices could be used as an avenue to the creative unconscious for artists (or at least for those with artistic intentions).
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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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Analyse away!
To analyse or to analyze?
Either way, I think your story is a good answer to:
Can there be any other way a fictional (real life - not fantasy) character emerges upon the page?
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado & Nepal
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I hereby confess to mixing British and American spellings, feet and meters, fahrenheit and celsius, while frequently unlocking the front door on the right of my car expecting the steering wheel to be there, turning on the windshield wipers when I wanted to use the turn signal etc. Such is the fate of a long time expat who has lived in British colonies and Japan for most of my adult life.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado & Nepal
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Mh2, here's another story from Okinawa.
An American student of mine went to the beach and found a very large clam shell which he brought home as a souvenir. Shortly after that he began experiencing a sense of dread and then involuntarily went into a kind of trance and began painting. He brought the painting to class and it looked like the silhouette of a baby in the womb. I asked him if anything had changed in his life and he told me about his good luck in finding the clam shell. I then told him that the Okinawans used to float victims of infanticide and abortions out to sea on the tide in those large clam shells. He returned the shell to the ocean and had no more problems.
Another personality asserting itself on the stage of life?
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Well . . . just a little bit of fantasy there perhaps. Even then, the characters didn't simply appear out of no-thing.
;>)
(Oh oh. Didn't mean to use that dreaded expression)
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