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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Apr 10, 2008 - 11:12pm PT
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The intro to the R&I blog says: "A Rock and Ice article [see ‘The Better Half,’ No. 165. Buy the issue here or click here to read the article] has recently generated a record breaking response on SuperTopo.com. Currently the forum topic “Doug Robinson, Sean Jones, rap bolt South face of Half Dome!” has generated 1181 responses since it was posted on March 29, 2008."
Strangely, the "Who the Hell Are You" thread was on the front page as recently as yesterday. It still holds the longest single thread record, at about 1280. http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=345899
The longest cumulative thread is probably the Stonemaster ones - ten in sequence, plus four spin-offs, with over 100 posts/thread.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Apr 10, 2008 - 11:20pm PT
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Popularity is only one factor but you can't totally ignore it.
The routes that are popular in Yosemite and that I often see parties on every day or every week: they are almost all fine, classic lines.
Other areas might have different results
That Supertopo photo thread is being left in the dust soon.
Peace
Karl
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Ben909
Trad climber
toronto
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Apr 10, 2008 - 11:28pm PT
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Cmon guys. When people are talking about popularity they are not talking about overbolted stuff for beginners to climb. It is not about how many ascents a climb is getting but rather whether it sees ascents at all. The point being made is that Karma is just sitting there not getting climbed year after year.
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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Apr 10, 2008 - 11:45pm PT
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ben909 wrote:
"Cmon guys. When people are talking about popularity they are not talking about overbolted stuff for beginners to climb. It is not about how many ascents a climb is getting but rather whether it sees ascents at all. The point being made is that Karma is just sitting there not getting climbed year after year."
That's not the way I interpreted the comments. The way I read them is that if a route gets done a lot (is "popular") then it is a "worthy" route. If a route doesn't get done a lot (is not "popular"), or not at all, then it is not a "worthy" route.
It took people a long, long time to repeat some of George Lowe's routes in the Canadian Rockies and several of them have less than a handful of ascents. I am not going to be the one to tell George that his routes aren't "worthy".
Bruce
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Domingo
Trad climber
El Portal, CA
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Apr 10, 2008 - 11:53pm PT
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IMHO, people aren't as curious about repeating Karma and Southern Belle because of the long approach/lack of beta.
I'm not saying you can't find topos, or that the FA parties won't talk about what's on the route, but having a day job and working the pitches isn't easy. If these routes were on El Cap, who's to say they wouldn't have been repeated a lot more often?
Growing Up has been hyped as much less terrifying, so people are going to check it out. Sean's suggested you can pull on gear through the hardest pitches (something it sounds like you can't do on Karma), and there isn't a ginsu knife edge for the second to worry about. Could be people french free past the first half to the bolted half only to find it's not at their level.
Furthermore, Growing Up has been created in a time where climbing is much, MUCH more 'commonplace' than when Karma was created. The bolts will be maintained. You're not going to have to place or replace bolts, because if the climbing's as accessible as described, then someone else will do it for you(this statement excludes Bob, because I bet five years from now Bob continues his generous act of replacing bolts).
We'll see how the popularity ebbs or flows when it turns out this is still a big wall and involves a lot of pitches (and a committing hike-in/hike-out).
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Apr 10, 2008 - 11:58pm PT
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Certainly popularity shouldn't be the only consideration. Quality of the climbing, aesthetics of the rock, damage to rock, and yes, style of FA, should all be considerations. What I see many of the detractors saying is that style of the FA has more importance than all the other characteristics put together. I think that selfishly overemphasizes the FA team's experience.
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Dr. Rock
Ice climber
Castle Rock
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Apr 10, 2008 - 11:59pm PT
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I just invented granite suction cups.
Unobtrusive rap devices doped with a Gorilla Glu/JB Weld Hybrid adhesive.
You have 60 minutes to clean your route, then they automatically pop off like so many nipples and fall harmelssly into Kamp Kury fire pits.
I here Disney is neggotiating for Half Dome.
They plan to install an overhang thang like the Grand Canyon.
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Apr 11, 2008 - 12:51am PT
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Bruce... may or may not be a classic. What we do know about a poplar route is that many people climb it and it may be for many reasons and it safe to safe that people recommend it to their friends and the route has good protection and good moves on fairly good stone...thus it may reach classic status in the years to come.
I would be willing to bet a thousand dollars with you that in 20 years Growing UP will be considered a classic in the Valley...you want that bet.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Apr 11, 2008 - 12:59am PT
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what is interesting is that coz posted on STForum, he didn't write a letter to R&I. I find that turn of events meaningful.
Further, while the article by DR was excellent, the extended comments on this thread have been much more profound in all ways (even the "flare-ups" are more profound) than the traditional print media modality. Not to mention that the thread hasn't "smashed" a record, yet. But then again, I didn't know this was competitive...
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GDavis
Trad climber
SoCal
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Apr 11, 2008 - 01:05am PT
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"IMHO, people aren't as curious about repeating Karma and Southern Belle because of the long approach/lack of beta"
Oh, its a lack of something, all right!
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KP Ariza
climber
SCC
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Apr 11, 2008 - 01:16am PT
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stevep, had rappel bolting been accepted practice on big "slabs" in the park back in the 80's, the f.a. of Growing Up (among many other routes) would be 15 to 20 years in the past. Because of efforts like Southern Belle, The Shinning and Burning Down the House, GU still remained until 2008. I wonder if Sean and Ben would feel a bit robbed today had things been different yesterday. Further, rap bolting on those big routes is not an "experience" its an installation job. Eight pitches up the arch? thats an experience.
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Buggs
Trad climber
Eagle River, Alaska
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Apr 11, 2008 - 02:37am PT
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I like the "Who the hell are you" thread better...more pictures. This one has not yet a topo...
Beelzebub
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Domingo
Trad climber
El Portal, CA
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Apr 11, 2008 - 02:42am PT
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Somewhere around post 600 (I think? Probably later, actually), there's a Karma topo.
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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Apr 11, 2008 - 02:50am PT
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Bob,
"classic" is another one of those terms that is highly subjective. Just look at the star ratings of climbs. Some think a climb is 1 out of 4 stars, others think the same climb is 3 out of 4 stars. Very few routes, even in Yosemite, are considered classic by a consensus of climbers.
"consensus" is another one of those terms that is highly subjective.........
Bruce
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Apr 11, 2008 - 02:51am PT
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I have long wanted to repeat Southern Belle, the stories made me want to go, the approach is not a deterant, but what is, is, that I know, deep in my soul, that, I'm flat out not good enough™
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Buggs
Trad climber
Eagle River, Alaska
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Apr 11, 2008 - 02:51am PT
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Sean mon Beerman,
Where is THE topo?
Admiral Bugg von IPA ness
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BLD
climber
excramento,CA
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Apr 11, 2008 - 02:59am PT
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TOPO!
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NinjaChimp
climber
someplace in-between
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Apr 11, 2008 - 03:06am PT
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Popularity doesn't matter much at all. What people get out of a route does, IMO matter. Popular routes tend to be the ones that are A) easy B) safe and C) fun. Obviously the most important routes tend to have a bit more depth to them.
-Justin
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Apr 11, 2008 - 08:03am PT
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Actually the most important routs ARE the ones that are the most fun YMMV
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Apr 11, 2008 - 08:15am PT
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Its not fair to compare mountain routs to pure rock climbs. It's not even apples and oranges. It's more like apples and pit bulls. Mountains are supposed to be big nasty horrendous beasts that inflict healthy doses of suffering and death on their suitors. Rock climbs are supposed to be fun;)
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