The Gun debate sandbox

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philo

Trad climber

Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?

Dec 14, 2012 - 07:41pm PT

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber

Toquerville, Utah

Dec 14, 2012 - 07:50pm PT

Extreme nutcases prove your point?

philo

Trad climber

Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?

Dec 14, 2012 - 08:57pm PT

If you think my point is that extreme nut cases should not have access to such excessive fire power then yes.

Chaz

Trad climber

greater Boss Angeles area

Dec 14, 2012 - 08:59pm PT

Legally, extreme nut cases don't have access to excessive fire power.

But then, nut cases can't legaly kill people, either.

philo

Trad climber

Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?

Dec 14, 2012 - 08:59pm PT

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/12/14/1339761/hours-after-kindergarten-shooting-michigan-gop-calls-for-allowing-guns-in-schools/?mobile=nc

Hours After Connecticut Kindergarten Shooting, Michigan GOP Calls For Allowing Guns In Schools
By Zack Beauchamp on Dec 14, 2012 at 4:36 pm
Hours after the terrible shooting in a Newtown, Connecticut elementary school, the Michigan House Republicans issued demanded that Governor Rick Snyder (R) sign a bill that would make it easier for people to receive a gun permit and open up “gun free zones,” including schools. A statement attributed to Press Secretary Ari B. Adler shrugged off any link between guns in schools and school shootings:

phylp

Trad climber

Millbrae, CA

Dec 14, 2012 - 09:28pm PT

NickD, I haven't read thru the whole thread, so I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but my husband tells me the NRA has actually been pressing for years for a national database that would permit extensive background checks, including previous diagnosis of a mental disorder, but that this database is oppossed by right to privacy advocates. And that the NRA supports legislation that would prevent those people from purchasing guns. It should be possible to find out if this is true or not.

This (private gun ownership laws) is a terribly complex issue.

HighTraverse

Trad climber

Bay Area

Dec 14, 2012 - 09:36pm PT

philo
that's just moronic

This (private gun ownership laws) is a terribly complex issue.

A lot less complex than a lot of issues we expect our government to manage.

Mimi

climber

Dec 14, 2012 - 11:41pm PT

Jan's post on page 1 is well worth re-reading.

This isn't about weapons at this point, it's about mental illness. The big dark secret nobody wants to confront, just like sexual molestation. And certainly an issue no one wants to allocate sufficient funding.

Young men between the ages of 15 and 25 that have a mental defect such as schizophrenia and other such illnesses and enter puberty can be radically affected by the associated biochemical/hormonal effects on the brain. This is a common pattern with many of the young men that have done these mass shootings.

Parents and teachers are the people making these daily observations. We aren't going to confiscate all the guns but we can target and profile the individuals that meet the criteria for this type of behavior pattern way before they undergo a psychotic break. With proper treatment, these people can be prevented from going over the edge.

healyje

Trad climber

Portland, Oregon

Dec 15, 2012 - 12:09am PT

We aren't going to confiscate all the guns...

We could severely curtail gun rights and gather up at least two thirds of the guns in circulation with minimal effort. Then tightly regulate guns no less than we do private autos or planes.

Chaz

Trad climber

greater Boss Angeles area

Dec 15, 2012 - 12:14am PT

Minimal effort? My ass.

How come the authorities can't *gather up* the guns in the hands of parolees?

Parolees have zero Constitutional rights. Parolees are subject to L.E.O. search and siezure anythime, anywhere, for any reason. Or for no reason. And yet I'm constantly reading about parolees committing crimes using guns.

Any efective effort to *gather up* guns will have to come at the expense of the Fourth Amendment ( at least ), as well as the Second.

Are YOU willing to live YOUR life with less freedom than some felon on parole? Because that's what you're suggesting.

Ken M

Mountain climber

Los Angeles, Ca

Dec 15, 2012 - 01:27am PT

I don't think most people support banning guns.

but I think that most people do support banning the sale of guns to mentally ill people, or people who are felons.

Right now, anyone can buy a gun legally at gun shows, and I think privately.

Here's my suggestion.

To buy a gun, you have to present a form signed by a physician that you are not mentally ill, and by law enforcement that you are not a felon. You have to retain the form for 5 years.

If you sell without it, you have committed a felony.
If you purchase without it, you have committed a felony.

If you sell to someone without it, they commit a crime, you forfeit your business, or if an idividual, your car or your home.

Until this is addressed seriously, it won't be taken seriously.

Chaz

Trad climber

greater Boss Angeles area

Dec 15, 2012 - 01:32am PT

Ken M writes:

"Right now, anyone can buy a gun legally at gun shows, and I think privately."

Not mentally ill people, or people who are felons. At least not legally, anyway.

Look it up if you don't believe me.

healyje

Trad climber

Portland, Oregon

Dec 15, 2012 - 01:38am PT

Are YOU willing to live YOUR life with less freedom than some felon on parole? Because that's what you're suggesting.

Absolutely, I'm all for sharply, and by sharply I mean way sharply, curtailing gun rights in the U.S

Chaz

Trad climber

greater Boss Angeles area

Dec 15, 2012 - 01:45am PT

To achieve that, you're going to have to be kicking in doors in the middle of the night to gather up all the guns. Everybody's door. Not just once, but over and over again - because guns can be moved easily from house to house.

Do YOU want to live like that?

Ksolem

Trad climber

Monrovia, California

Dec 15, 2012 - 02:26am PT

Right now, anyone can buy a gun legally at gun shows, and I think privately.

You are clueless. Go try and buy a gun at a show in CA.

bvb

Social climber

flagstaff arizona

Dec 15, 2012 - 02:37am PT

If I have my history correct, the 2nd amendment protects the ownership and use of muzzle-loaded blackpowder flintlock muskets, or something to that effect. I doubt the framers, if alive today, would approve of what they saw going on around them.

healyje

Trad climber

Portland, Oregon

Dec 15, 2012 - 02:41am PT

Do YOU want to live like that?

I wouldn't have to. But I'm more than absolutely fine with you living like that, however. I'm fine with doing whatever is required to clear the nation of 200m of the 300m guns here.