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Chewybacca
Trad climber
Kelly Morgan, Whitefish MT
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Jan 26, 2016 - 09:28pm PT
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Looks like they will be occupying federal land for many years to come.
I wonder if the state will file charges also. The governor was pretty upset with the Brokeback Militia.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 26, 2016 - 09:42pm PT
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Does anyone know if a person dying during the arrest can lead to further charges? Such as someone can be charged with murder if someone dies in the commission of a crime. At least as I understand it.
Yes, under the felony murder rule, Ryan Bundy for sure, possibly Ammmon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felony_murder_rule
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Jan 26, 2016 - 09:48pm PT
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CNN just posted this news:
A law enforcement official told CNN that authorities pulled over two vehicles. Everyone obeyed orders to surrender except two people: LaVoy Finicum and Bundy's brother, Ryan Bundy, the official said.
Shots were fired, but it's not known who fired first, the official said. Ryan Bundy was injured, but Finicum died, the official added.
Finicum was among the most outspoken of the occupiers who took over the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge near Burns on January 2 to protest federal land policies.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/26/us/oregon-wildlife-refuge-siege-arrests/
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John M
climber
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Jan 26, 2016 - 09:50pm PT
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I'm looking for an interpretation of how that would work in this case.
As I understand that law, they have to be committing a felony. I believe holding the refuge is a felony, but would they be considered to be committing a felony when on the way to a meeting? Or would it be because someone resisted arrest? What if some of them surrendered immediately, but shots were fired before they could be placed under arrest?
Mostly just curious how this will play out?
Edit: from Fritz's post.. would Bundy's brother be the only person to have an added charge of murder? or would all of them possibly face that charge?
Edit: my own feeling is that if they have been saying that they would use weapons to hold the refuge, then they are a kind of enemy combatant (don't know the proper language to describe what they are doing at the refuge} and should face murder charges even if on the way to a meeting.
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Gary
Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
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Jan 26, 2016 - 09:59pm PT
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"I have some sons and other people there trying to protect our rights and liberties and freedoms, and now we've got one killed, and all I can say is, he's sacrificed for a good purpose," Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy told the Los Angeles Times...
Yeah, the good purpose of allowing Cliven to leech off the government.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 26, 2016 - 10:00pm PT
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Traveling in the vehicle with everyone loaded for bear could be considered a continuation of the charge of impeding an officer. If Ryan Bundy pulled a weapon he is toast.
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crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
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Jan 26, 2016 - 10:01pm PT
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I'm glad no law enforcement officers were killed capturing these domestic terrorists.
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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Jan 26, 2016 - 10:07pm PT
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Does anyone know if a person dying during the arrest can lead to further charges? Such as someone can be charged with murder if someone dies in the commission of a crime. At least as I understand it.
let's say that there is a bank robbery where someone is killed, an accomplice( who didn't do the shooting) can be charged as an accessory after the fact.
This case is different though in that the Feds did the shooting
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jan 26, 2016 - 10:17pm PT
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I don't know from Oregon law, but in California, that'd make you more than an accessory after the fact - it'd be a murder charge.
More than a few guys are doing life for murder because one of their pals was killed during commission of their crime. Like two guys decide to rob a liquor store, and the clerk shoots and kills one of them. The surviving robber will be charged with murder.
It'll be interesting to find out what went down in Oregon.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Jan 26, 2016 - 10:17pm PT
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 26, 2016 - 09:42pm PT
Does anyone know if a person dying during the arrest can lead to further charges? Such as someone can be charged with murder if someone dies in the commission of a crime. At least as I understand it.
Yes, under the felony murder rule, Ryan Bundy for sure, possibly Ammmon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felony_murder_rule
In Oregon the person killed has to be NOT one of the participants in the felony.
http://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/163.115
Currently, the felony murder rule for federal offenses is applied at sentencing, not at trial, which some think is a violation of due process and must be shown at trial. In any case, the Feds must usually show malice aforethought except in cases like arson.
And the Feds make a distinction between the felony murder doctrine and the felony murder rule. It's a big hot mess.
http://www.repository.law.indiana.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1585&context=ilj
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Spiny Norman
Social climber
Boring, Oregon
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Jan 26, 2016 - 10:27pm PT
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^ very interesting. Thanks, Lorenzo.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 27, 2016 - 12:21am PT
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Armored vehicles are headed in convoys toward the refuge, helicopters are overhead.
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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Jan 27, 2016 - 05:55am PT
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Jan 27, 2016 - 05:59am PT
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Made my day, Nature! You da man. Stand off is over. One loser dead, another shot. Hey, morons: Don't take up guns and tell the lawfully appointed officers of this country what to do. Good riddance.
BAd
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Jan 27, 2016 - 06:01am PT
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Why is McConnell not in jail?
*edit* Seems like a very honest account. Good on him. He explains why he wasn't arrested.
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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Jan 27, 2016 - 06:37am PT
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I appreciate two of his comments (and his honesty).
1) it's over. people are leaving.
2) don't make sh#t up.
No problem BAd. Had to have something for breakfast.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jan 27, 2016 - 06:54am PT
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It's cool to see so many Progressives coming out in support of police violence, mass incarceration, and prison rape.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 27, 2016 - 07:02am PT
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David Frye is live streaming from inside. One minute he is talking about impending death, then he is talking about talent releases. He is working up a good insanity defense
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