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johnkelley
climber
Anchorage Alaska
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"Don't let your kids grow up to be risky campers. Unsafe camping is stupid."
You mean camping like this?
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WBraun
climber
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Sherpa bring cast iron wood stove and firewood to keep you warm in there right??
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johnkelley
climber
Anchorage Alaska
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I'm fairly good at dangerous camping. Look no bolts
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Nov 11, 2013 - 10:04pm PT
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Really dude? Your gonna drag this sh#t up again?
I thought we all agreed that first ascensionists own the route.
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susu
Trad climber
East Bay, CA
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Nov 12, 2013 - 11:55am PT
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It is an honor system. The FA owns the route in the sense of standing by what they establish. Those who climb a route do so at their own risk, and also risk acting dishonorably when they knowingly interfere with established routes. We all have to honor that none of us own public lands and need to remind ourselves to tread lightly on them.
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jgill
Boulder climber
Colorado
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Nov 12, 2013 - 06:24pm PT
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If we don't own the idea of an ascent do we own the ascent itself?
A metaphysical question that might be contemplated by the meditative crew on the Politics, God and Religion vs. Science thread.
:>)
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atchafalaya
Boulder climber
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Nov 12, 2013 - 06:32pm PT
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"If we don't own the idea of an ascent do we own the ascent itself?"
Believe whatever you want. But please, just don't call it art.
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 12, 2013 - 08:23pm PT
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Ultimately we never own anything at all.
It's just in relation to our material body.
At the dissolution of the material body all ones material possessions must left behind.
The real question is: "Who is THE real owner"
One who knows this answer knows the mystery of life .......
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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
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Nov 13, 2013 - 12:40am PT
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I'm just catching up with this thread and am at 140 posts so far and like this from #139;
I gotta jump in here and disagree, Joe. First, climbers of the era did challenge themselves at their mental limits on FAs of bolted routes, and the physical limit is governed by the mental limit - IOW the physical limits were pushed hard also. The stress and body tension that comes from drilling on a crap stance 20 ft out is most physical, if I remember right.
The discussion about how bouldering ushered in the next phase of evolution goes nicely with this. I like the way Warbler combines the mental difficulties of these routes with the physical to show why a climber that could boulder more difficult rock could be at the limit on a route like this - and that he might not be faking it. Combine that with some true idealism about quantity of bolts, idealism about not falling and being in control, and you end of with a different animal than much of the sterile climbing going on today. It's no secret that runout routes are runout, so why does Hedge make such a big deal of it? Clearly some people like the challenge of stepping up to the plate there, even though that is not for everyone. Sure, people can free solo whatever they want, but it can be hard to find nice runouts!
Did John Bachar ever free solo the BY?
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Nov 13, 2013 - 01:03am PT
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You're in for a wild ride McHale's navy
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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
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Nov 13, 2013 - 01:08am PT
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I was in a rowboat with Mickey Mouse once. I can handle it.
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Nov 13, 2013 - 01:09am PT
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Haha that would have been a good time I bet. You guys get goofy or what?
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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
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Nov 13, 2013 - 01:11am PT
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Got him alright! There used to be a runout climb at Squamish called Firewalk. Been there done that. It's still a wee bit runout right? Or, should I ask if the FA team still owns it? It was just a 5.10 but I don't know if that included the mental aspect of the rating or not. Actually, the hardest part of the climb was watching some guys break into our car while we were up there. That pushed the rating to 5.11......my head almost exploded!
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Nov 13, 2013 - 03:12am PT
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Oh damn man, that sucks you guys got looted & had to watch! I could see that making things cruxy for sure. What a peculiar situation.
I think the FA ists of firewalk sold the rights to it & it was subsequently fully sport bolted, thus requiring an upgrade to 12b but it feels more like 12c if its early season & the tick marks haven't filled in yet & there's no chalk on the crux holds :-)
Or are you thinking of hellfire wall?? That one they call 5.11 nowadays I think.
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patrick compton
Trad climber
van
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Nov 13, 2013 - 07:40am PT
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let the crest-thumping re-commence!
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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
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Nov 13, 2013 - 01:38pm PT
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Or are you thinking of hellfire wall?? That one they call 5.11 nowadays I think.
Ryan, no question that it is Firewalk. I don't have access to my guide but I'm pretty sure it's up on the Squaw. May be on Hellfire Wall for all I know if that's up there. I quit going up to Squamish after things started getting crowded. Climbing was never meant to be popular, but something for just a select few which did not include me! I was too Schizo which is why I've never forgotten the Chouinard Schizo hat. Anyone got one they want to part with?
I wanted to comment on some earlier comments somebody made about the ego being a dirty thing that should not be involved in putting routes up. Break my leg and throw me off the cliff! The game included trying to frighten your peers, but just short of killing them. That's what sport is. It's part of every sport on the planet. If a person can't take it, then they should go and drop acid and drop out, and let the real climbers keep the fire lit. It's no coincidence that the spelling of testpiece was very similar to the spelling of testicles BITD.
Glad to hear John did not FS BY. That would not have made sense.
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