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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Jan 24, 2014 - 10:16pm PT
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The Chief...You will remain a hypocrite Until you bolt a side-car onto every bike in your quiver ...Hypocrite...!
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TLP
climber
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Jan 24, 2014 - 10:51pm PT
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Why do extremists stand in the way of such rational improvements?
One might be a wag and ask, extremists on which side? (Which, I think it is both.)
But anyway, these are all great things in my view too, irrespective of CO2 concerns. Someday the fossils run out, and the earlier that good substitutes are on line, the less bad things happen, domestically and globally, when that starts to happen. But I think it will not have the effect you suppose is possible: it will not act to reduce China's emissions or share of manufacturing. The problem is, coal is just way too cheap, because the environmental costs of using it (both air pollution - mercury etc., even if you are not concerned about CO2 - and habitat/watershed destruction with minimal reclamation) are not being paid. China has painted itself into a corner of requiring a certain supply of additional jobs every year to maintain their desperately prized social stability (the country is just way too big to use the North Korea military approach), and these cannot be created without continuing to increase coal consumption at the rates we've seen in graphs right here. So, no, the only way to really steer that battleship is for global trade systems to develop some spine and insist on some minimal labor and environmental standards. But that is intensely unpalatable to both "free-market" advocates and corporate interests.
Plus, doing some of the stuff you advocate is exactly the favoritism that is widely criticized. Mileage standards are even-handed, but any other preferences run into one or another lobby. If you want to tilt fuel use in the ways you suggest, the best, fairest, most innovation-friendly solution is what's advocated by the Economist: carbon tax. But that's a tax. And I would agree with you that it shouldn't just be another heap of cash to be ill-spent.
So, we're kind of stuck with the ongoing trends. Hence my opinion that we should just figure out the science well enough to deal with that future climate. Which has the benefit that, if it were to prove that CO2 weren't all that important (highly unlikely I think), you'd be all set for a lot of bad sh!t that could just come down the road from natural occurrences.
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TLP
climber
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Jan 25, 2014 - 12:02am PT
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In the mean time, CHINA keeps blasting shet into the air
I'm confused, haven't you spent hundreds of posts explaining why this doesn't matter? Same for smog: SO2, NOx, all that stuff comes out of volcanic eruptions, and there have been huge ones of those in the last, oh, 500 million years.
Besides, isn't China just the absolute business paradise we are always told we ought to have here? None of those pesky environmental and health regulations that get such a bad rap. What's a few thousand mining deaths every year when you are producing? No labor unions, and on and on. Isn't it just BD's "freedom" to dump its US workforce and outsource to China?
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 25, 2014 - 01:15am PT
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You're a coward!
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Braunini
Big Wall climber
cupertino
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Jan 25, 2014 - 01:28am PT
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stupid americans
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Jan 25, 2014 - 11:56am PT
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 25, 2014 - 12:00pm PT
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Bruce Kay = a stupid granny who runs her mouth incessantly non stop all day long saying absolutely nothing.
Bruce Kay = blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
Diarrhea of the mouth ....
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 25, 2014 - 12:23pm PT
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I never denied climate change here stupid fool.
I've been saying for 30 years now that mankind controls it's own fate for everything on this planet.
Whatever you desire will come about eventually.
Most of mankind's desires have been chaos and the results speak for themselves.
Everything negative including the present climate change is due to mankind's inharmonious actions towards the material nature.
You need serious help Bruce with your incessant babbling.
Seek help dude and learn to STFU for periods ......
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 25, 2014 - 01:02pm PT
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Wow. Boys, please.
This thread has, at times, been really cool and people had the semblance of a real discussion. We've had noted professional scientists calmly explain the state of the current science to a mob of people who don't care to listen. All they want to do is fight. And the people who've had good intentions are all throwing in the towel.
The lesson learned? You can't teach the willfully ignorant.
So y'all can happily carry this thread even farther down the sewer line, it's pretty much a case-closed argument now. I suppose the only thing left for deniers to do is to demand equal time (and more) than those who can actually reason. The deniers, with their <5%.
I wonder, why do they have such a loud voice? I see one thing, they're able to yell all day while the scientists are actually out in the field, working on the science on which they're reporting.
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TLP
climber
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Jan 25, 2014 - 01:16pm PT
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"It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Jan 25, 2014 - 01:38pm PT
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The sharks lost their teeth and swam ignorantly into the sewer drain. We live, its a beautiful day, smell the roses.
The title of your thread is Climate Change Skeptics, isn't it Kelly?
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raymond phule
climber
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Jan 25, 2014 - 03:21pm PT
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http://www.supertopo.com/inc/photo_zoom.php?dpid=Oj41NzkmKSEiLQ,,
One interesting thing to consider when talking about China is that it has a population of 4.2 times the population in USA. So that plot above show that the coal consumption in china and USA per capita is about the same.
China is a very large country and what it does is very important but I have a heard time to consider it the big bad wolf in regard to climate as many seems to do. The per capita release of CO2 in china is about half the release in USA if I remember correctly and much less if the total amount for for example the last 50 years is compare. The trend is of course important but to me it seems hypocritical to complain much about a country that release much less CO2 than your country does (per capita).
A lot of stuff is also produced in china so it is not that they just drive a lot in their huge cars or something like that.
It is also the country with most wind power installed so it is not that they do nothing either (but the capita figure is not that good in that case)
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raymond phule
climber
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Jan 25, 2014 - 03:25pm PT
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Nice trend analysis there Sketch. Did you test allot of starting points to find the good one for that data set or did you copy it from a blog?
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raymond phule
climber
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Jan 25, 2014 - 03:27pm PT
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Read it on that blog of course.
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raymond phule
climber
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Jan 25, 2014 - 03:36pm PT
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Nope.. same source that many of those on YOUR side of aisle have been using.
I know that the data came from that site but the analysis was posted on your and sketch favorite blog recently.
It is just sad when you and others show analysis with obviously cheery picked starting dates over and over again.
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raymond phule
climber
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Jan 25, 2014 - 03:48pm PT
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Cherry picked?
Yes, but I doubt that you know the meaning of cherry picking.
You and EDH most certainly must have conferred earlier today prior to your postings.
Yes, of course. It is so extremely hard to see that choosing a record year as the starting point results in some special properties in the analysis.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jan 25, 2014 - 03:58pm PT
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#1 is busy again...
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raymond phule
climber
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Jan 25, 2014 - 04:02pm PT
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Your posting Phule is only proving my recent point....
Mumbling and rambling along is now the order of the day for you all.
Even Sketch has said that only fools discuss with you and your friends on this thread.
I really feel like a fool that I have tried to answer you. Your and ricks posts are just your opinion and a very uninteresting opinion because you have nothing to back them up with.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jan 25, 2014 - 04:05pm PT
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I own your ass as well.
Delusion much?
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