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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Sep 13, 2011 - 04:33pm PT
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Rox, how is your eviction going?
Stop procrastinating.
Every minute you spend here, your tenant is getting free board from you.
You know this and that's why you're so bitchy.
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raymond phule
climber
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Sep 13, 2011 - 04:33pm PT
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That did hurt. Rokjox saying that I didn't pay attention.
I have a question for you. You said that a pilot with a FAA commercial pilot certificate cant fly an airplane (the 4 class comment). That sounds strange to me can you clarify?
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Sep 13, 2011 - 04:37pm PT
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You ever play around with MS Flight Simulator and crash your plane into buildings?
I've heard that MS Flight Simulator simulates the flight characteristics of planes pretty well. Doing the same thing in a real plane is just as easy, only you need to learn to use the real controls instead of the computer keyboard/mouse/joystick.
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raymond phule
climber
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Sep 13, 2011 - 04:41pm PT
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"The Pentagon flight (77) made a 270 spral corkscrew dive from about 8,000 feet to end up PERFECTLY at ground level, aligned with the very short Pentagon. If he was suh an idiot at the controls, why didn't he make a low approach from a long ways off? What he managed WAS fantastic if you believe the OCT. Remember he had never ever flown a jet airliner before, much less that giant 757.
He was flying whay over the breakup limits for that plane, at almost sealevel. That speed at ground level would have incredble ground effect trying to push him back up into the sky. Yet, he managed to stay at 20' to 6" AGL in perfect control..."
Something says that you have never flown any kind of aircraft.
Ground effekt trying to push him back into the sky?
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Sep 13, 2011 - 04:44pm PT
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I'm sure Bin Laden, Al Qaeda, or WHOEVER, had access to the best engineers in the world, the plans for the Trade Towers, unlimited funding, and the highest demolition technology available.
Hundreds of millions of dollars can buy a lot.
The conspiracy theory like to paint the terrorists as being half-witted apes who couldn't tie their own shoes without help.
For example in Karl's 9/11 conspiracy video they make a big point of saying that Bin Laden was on dialysis and operating out of a cave. The truth is that it was always just an unsubstantiated rumour that Bin Laden was on dialysis. There was probably no truth to it, and even if there was, his being on dialysis wouldn't prevent him from planning an attack. Dialysis affects the kidneys, not the brain.
Also, he had extensive facilities on more than one continent, and wasn't operating out of a cave. AFTER the attacks and after his bases were wiped out, he may have spent some time hiding in an underground bunker in Tora Bora.
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monolith
climber
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Sep 13, 2011 - 04:46pm PT
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Warbler, why the heck would Bin Laden go to the enormous risk of planting bombs when he already was killing 500 people by just ramming planes into buildings?
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monolith
climber
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Sep 13, 2011 - 04:47pm PT
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Yep, Rox, I know the flight path.
Just a 270 degree turn, then 6 miles fairly straight in. Hardly a corkscrew.
More like 330 degrees if you count the gentle start.
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raymond phule
climber
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Sep 13, 2011 - 04:59pm PT
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Rokjox, it was proved a couple of days ago that you know nothing about computers but do you know that it exist very good flight simulators that have the same cockpits as the real planes? Do you know that the hijackers trained in that kind of simulators?
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monolith
climber
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Sep 13, 2011 - 05:06pm PT
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The buildings were impacted in much different points Warbler. One much lower than the other. Hardly well planned. And that's why the second impacted tower collapsed first.
4 suicide hijackings, 500 dead and 3 smoking icons would be guaranteed to allow us to do what ever we wanted in the ME. There would still be the same economic impact on the travel industry as well as an enormous financial cost to rebuild the area.
Didn't you see all the horror on peoples faces before the collapse?
So now why go to the trouble and risk of making sure the buildings collapse when the goal is already achieved?
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Sep 13, 2011 - 05:08pm PT
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Rox said, and I quote
Rokjox, it was proved a couple of days ago that you know nothing about computers but do you know that it exist very good flight simulators that have the same cockpits as the real planes? Do you know that the hijackers trained in that kind of simulators?
Rox doesn't know any of this.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Sep 13, 2011 - 05:24pm PT
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I guess bringing them down with airplanes alone is like what, 5.14?
Actually, 5.14 has been done. ;-)
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monolith
climber
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Sep 13, 2011 - 05:33pm PT
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Warbler, glad you don't buy into the idea that the 'neocons did it so they could have their new american century'.
That's who I meant by 'we'.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Sep 13, 2011 - 05:42pm PT
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Wow, the LIHOP evidence is really overwhelming and stacking up.
They knew specifics. They knew the targets. They knew it was imminent. They knew these guys were here planning the strike. They really knew it all, and then purposefully hid it and did not share the intelligence with other Federal agencies and withheld this information from The Congressional probe.
The dam of info seems to be breaking. So many leaks now it is really overwhelming . . .
EXCLUSIVE: New Documents Claim Intelligence on Bin Laden, al-Qaeda Targets Withheld From Congress' 9/11 Probe
Monday 13 June 2011
by: Jeffrey Kaye and Jason Leopold, Truthout | Report
http://www.truth-out.org/new-documents-claim-intelligence-bin-laden-al-qaeda-targets-withheld-congress-911-probe/1307986777
"I kept the original classifications on the slides, as historical documents, although the fact that al-Qa'ida was likely to attack the World Trade Center and the Pentagon was clearly no longer classified." (Emphasis added.)
Iron Man further elaborated on this point by stating that high-level DoD officials held discussions about DO5's intelligence activities between the summer of 2000 and June 2001 revolving around al-Qaeda's interest in striking the Pentagon, the World Trade Center (WTC), and other targets.
In other words, the Bush administration was fully aware the terrorist organization had set its sights on those structures prior to 9/11 and, apparently, government officials failed to act on those warnings.
For example, Iron Man states in his letter that in the summer of 2000, DO5 briefed USJFCOM senior intelligence officials and staffers, including the deputy commander in chief, on the "WMD Threat to the U.S."
Iron Man describes a "sensitive," "oral briefing" that took place that summer "indicating that the World Trade Centers #1 and #2 were the most likely buildings to be attacked [by al-Qaeda], followed closely by the Pentagon. The briefer indicated that the worst case scenario would be one tower collapsed onto another."
Furthermore, as he states in his letter, Iron Man was certain that such a scenario was part of a "red cell analysis" discussion that took place prior to the intelligence briefing and included a finding that the buildings "could be struck by a jetliner." He wrote that there was a suggestion about alerting WTC security and engineering or architectural staff, "but the idea was not further explored because of a command climate discouraging contact with the civilian community."
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Intelligence Withheld From Congress
Even worse, according to Iron Man's letter, the information DO5 had collected about Bin Laden, al-Qaeda and the lead up to 9/11 was withheld from Congress after the House and Senate Intelligence Committees launched an investigation into the attacks.
"When the Justice Department requested all documents relating to 9/11 from DoD in May 2002, I notified [redacted] in the DIA Congressional Affairs office that I retained these documents," Iron Man's letter states. "I spoke to [redacted] JFIC DI1 [an individual who works in the command administrative staff], who informed me that JFIC had already submitted a response without any documents. I was surprised and disappointed when my successor at DO5 [redacted] notified me of the full JFIC non-response. I notified [redacted] in the Congressional Affairs office, and was told to submit the documents as DIA documents, with an explanatory e-mail. I did so on 29 May 2002, presuming (probably correctly) that the documents might be overlooked, since they originated at JFIC. I forwarded copies to [redacted] (who was departing JFIC that week), (his subordinate), and [redacted] (who was also departing JFIC that week)."
A DoD spokesperson did not respond to requests for comment. Spokespeople for the House and Senate Intelligence Committees also did not respond to calls for comment.
After raising his concerns, Iron Man, who from late 2000 to June 2001 was acting head of DO5, was told by his former boss that JFIC's formal response to Congress' inquiries was that "al-Qaida and the 9/11 attacks had been outside JFIC's purview and that JFIC consequently held no material on those issues," which was a lie.
Iron Man's boss said, "He insisted [to officials who responded to the Congressional inquiries] that such was not the case, but was told this was JFIC's response."
Iron Man wrote that "many people" working at government agencies were knowledgeable about JFIC's "role in preparing original analysis" on al-Qaeda, including officials at the CIA, NCIS, USJFCOM, DIA and NSA, whose names were redacted in the letter he sent to DoD's inspector general.
However, after conducting at least 300 interviews and reviewing hundreds of thousands of pages of documents, the final report issued by the House and Senate Intelligence Committees in December 2002, into "Intelligence Community Activities Before And After The Terrorist Attacks Of September 11, 2001" did not cite any of DO5's work on al-Qaeda or Bin Laden or the fact that the intelligence unit was able to identify the terrorist group's top two targets in the US. The later 2004 9/11 Commission Report did not mention DO5 or JFIC.
"Spies Knew" . . .
and apparently they knew a lot and also purposefully and deceitfully withheld it.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Sep 13, 2011 - 06:20pm PT
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Man, this is getting depressing.
I mean, we provide videos of firemen telling of their eye-witness experiences with explosions in the WTC towers, coz even telling us that those in NY that day knew WTC 7 was brought down with explosions, all sorts of physical and photographic evidence of explosives. We have those on the 9-11 Commission telling us that the thing was a shame, accounts of folks on the inside, telling us how things were buried and leads left to die. On and on. Tons and tons of hard evidence.
And yet, not one of these bozos can admit to even one of these things as being valid.
So stuck in their belief that the OCT is true and correct, they will do anything, anything I tell you, to put blinders on to anything that would shake their rock-solid boat.
Myself, I need to put blinders on when Locker posts.
I'm at WORK, dammit.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Sep 13, 2011 - 06:32pm PT
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Ron wrote
Yes karl,, like the 911 hijackers werent TRAINED in our country... Just like the mexican natl DIDNT just shoot the hell out of Carson city.
wrong Ron. Some of them WERE demonstrably trained in the US, that's one way we know the pilot who hit the pentagon was a horribly bad pilot, cause of this record with US flight schools
peace
karl
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monolith
climber
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Sep 13, 2011 - 06:37pm PT
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Hey K-Man, did you see the Naudet brothers documentary a couple nights ago?
The firefighters in WTC1, after WTC2 collapsed into it, were on the radio saying 'we took a hit on that last explosion', 'did you hear that explosion'?, 'What was that explosion'?
They did not know what happened till after they left WTC1 and it still took them a while to realize it was WTC2 collapsing.
So there were lots of reports of explosions that day. Pretty much any loud noise was referred to as an explosion.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Sep 13, 2011 - 06:40pm PT
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Personally, I'm not sure I believe the towers had any demolition, but will say this, I did personally talk to an architect who claimed he worked with Japanese guys on the design of the towers and he said they planned on demolition installation in advance because the real estate market suggested that making it easy to knock something down and rebuild it was smart business. People were making a lot of money tearing down buildings and building new ones. Take it for what it's worth, I don't know myself
Peace
Karl
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atchafalaya
Boulder climber
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Sep 13, 2011 - 07:44pm PT
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Sorry, I did not read all posts. I am interested, was video released of a plane hitting the pentagon, and if so, link please? Thank you,
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coondogger
Trad climber
NH
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Sep 13, 2011 - 07:51pm PT
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I have a question regarding the planes the terrorists were trained in vs. commercial jet aircraft they flew without remote assistance, by visual reference to their intended targets.
I looked up photos of the cockpits and they are drastically different. Anyone here know how or if it is difficult to fly a commercial jet once it is airborne and running with limited flight education?
Thanks
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