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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Jan 18, 2014 - 09:23pm PT
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Then you'd like it here today.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Jan 18, 2014 - 11:21pm PT
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This seems a good juncture to express appreciation to everyone who has posted links to actual publications, and anything objective about the actual science. I have learned a lot! Having had a professor in college present, in all seriousness, a couple of lectures to the effect that the "theory" that the continents have moved around all over the place was not proven, while at the same time in another class we were getting the geomagnetic data showing the actual rates of Atlantic sea floor spreading, I learned long ago not to take any expert pronouncements as definitive unless I could read the actual papers it was based on, look at the graphs, be sure they fit data that is reviewable, and so on. So this thread has been very useful to me.
That is a classic story, and the same happened to me in a litho stratigraphy class. It was a graduate class, and unfortunately the really good stratigraphy professor was on sabbatical that year. The old fart who taught it probably hadn't read a paper in decades.
So we were taught geosynclinal theory, which is an incredibly weird way to explain tectonic features. It is now a totally discarded theory. You can google geosynclinal theory on wiki and read about 1960's geology.
I was taking a clastic facies class at the same time, and that professor would give us reading assignments that were cutting edge.
So when I had a test in the bogus class, I would give the answer taught in class, but write the real answers in the margins and stuff on the test. That professor was old and not engaged in the science.
Plate tectonics explains the planet's major tectonic features very well. It has stood up to zillions of papers which use it, and is an incredibly simple and beautiful theory. Much like Evolution is for biologists.
I see that you are still insulting people like it actually means something, Napoleon. In a real debate, people would walk out of the lecture hall. Unfortunately, Napoleon has a captive audience. This is an interesting topic, but to be tied down with dogma only reveals the shaky ground would fall away.
Those who use the ad hominen attack, which relies on insults rather than rational dialogue, is more or less choosing to live an intellectually inferior life.
Just saying the way I see it.
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TLP
climber
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Jan 19, 2014 - 02:16am PT
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The Chief: The "simple answer please" that you requested was provided pages and pages ago but you conveniently ignored it. In a word (acronym, actually): ENSO. If you have to have a simple answer (one factor), for the time period you are asking about, that's the one that will best correlate with the few-to-ten-year swings in temperature in your graph which you have posted maybe 20 or more times. I posted a plot which you can compare with the temperature line. Temperature upswings with El Nino; downswings with La Nina conditions. You can easily find places where the SOI or ENSO graph doesn't match the temps, but that's because, as Rick Sumner has frequently pointed out, it is not a simple system and other factors do have effects.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jan 19, 2014 - 10:03am PT
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The "MODELS" EDH are full of shet.
You are dodging EDH.
The one you keep posting does not even indicate the 1910-1945 event. Blows right over it.
Please do show where your "Models" indicate that particular event and what was the forcing mechanism.
Chief Number One: utterly incapable of S-ingTFU.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Jan 19, 2014 - 10:48am PT
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I find myself in the bizarre position of agreement
posts 1-300 expurgated, recontextualized,,,
Duh?
I find myself in the bizarre position of agreement
with much of what you say in this thread,
did they all die off from gagging on all the right-wing spin on the subject?
Hopefully they're as extinct as the Dodo
I'm a climate change legislation skeptic
As I recall, the ditch used to be filled with ice
the question is "do any of the unaffordable targeted projects reduce the temperature of the globe, one fraction of a degree?"
I think the answers would be a lot more honest if you guys simply said
"I just don't give a sh#t."
I crossed the line towards accepting the science about a decade ago.
The subject is very difficult to wade through in the popular media.
It IS something that would be tremendously difficult to address.
Very expensive.
Most of my life, I'd probably side with the tree hugging, salmon saving, don't dirt bike in the wilderness types, whilst growing up in a predominant timber town.
What we have is a lack of will to make the necessary changes.
I'm not a government hater like many here.
Is this the forum for the flat earth society?
There are smart measures and there are dumb ones.
more data needed on your terlit reading...
That was during the early Cretaceous.
At that time practically any shoreline on Earth was unrecognizable in any but a general sense.
the ocean is still right where it always was.
I am the law, up till the mean high water tide line
I can't believe people buy into the bullshit propagated by big oil
Oh my god! Data!
Water runs downhill.
Are the GCC deniers just a bunch of guilble nuckle heads that have been brainwashed by the Corporate media, doing the work of big oil to help them buy time, and confuse the issue, so nothing gets done
Oh my god! Data!
Water runs downhill.
Not a skeptic... and I care a little.... But I just can't care too much...
Calm, reason, think critically. Be skeptical.
hopefully we can have a constructive conversation and leave the name calling
Just remember that scientific data in isolation cannot lead to sound economic decisions.
It's too bad lack of beer isn't causing Climate change or we'd get a lot more support curing the issue.
Poor countries are always going to suffer, no matter what happens.
and it continues to pile up:
Oh my god! Data!
Water runs downhill.
Not a skeptic... and I care a little.... But I just can't care too much...
Calm, reason, think critically. Be skeptical.
I'm more than happy to risk the future of your kids and grandkids,
thinking the denial about cigarettes is a good analogy
Its like trying to use science on creationists.
There are no solutions, only compromises.
What is the priority?
Every action has an equal, and opposite reaction.
Just spent 2 days in a room full of Arctic scientists.
I can't think of any issue other than Evolution
How soon will it be warm enough for some modern day Vikings
I remember when I was in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania back in the 50's the steel mills created so much smog that it changed the climate there to a very disturbing quality.
Let's say your penis was withering and you were afraid it was going to fall off.
Water runs downhill.
Whenever I hear these type of thoughts it is the highest form of selfishness.
The problem is Civilization has got to crap,
Unless of course you volunteer to go kill yourself first ....
And since non-smokers sometimes get lung cancer smoking is not responsible for lung cancer.
Do I think that we are being a bit ignorant and arrogant about what we will be able to accomplish with our endeavours?
every cloud has a silver lining...
when the ocean rises, it will flood most of newport beach and displace hundreds of thousand climate change skeptics that call reagan country their home....ha , ha ....
Yes!
Oh my god! Data!
Water runs downhill.
Not a skeptic... and I care a little.... But I just can't care too much...
Calm, reason, think critically. Be skeptical.
And of course I'm excluding those fumes exuded from T-Rex after partaking in Sauropod Burritos:-)
Wow, you're so brilliant.
Amazing how this thread went silent so quickly...Bluering
What does all this mean?
The sun is responsible for Global Warming...
duh?
Only the truth suffers.
It seems reasonable given the large and increasing numbers of us...
how do you know the center of the earth is 6000 degrees, C?
This is the Green equivalent to Weapons Of Mass Destruction.
I clicked on this thread by accident
You are wrong.Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong,
Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong,
Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong,
Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong,
Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong,
Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.
Ya can type "wrong" a thousand more times, but it won't truthify the points you make up
Acid rain does cause damage,
Climate models were not invented to show doom,
they were developed to try to untangle natural from anthropogenic effects in complex dynamic systems.
I find myself in the bizarre position of agreement with much of what you say in this thread,
We ourselves and every individual on the planet are the problem.
The transformation starts with us.
As one pundit put it, the science is indeed settled
I hate it when ideas show up on threads.
I would be against borrowing money from China to give to other countries as an apology for melting ice.
Go breath the air in LA and you'll be in far worse danger than one in a million via terrorist attack.
Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong,
Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong,
Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong,
Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong,
Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong,
Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.
Why do you try to reason with climate change deniers and creationists. These people believe what they want to believe in spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
They don't use reason and logic,
they have beliefs and will latch onto any scant evidence or controversy to support those beliefs.
Thank you for that sober assessment.I will level with you, I am a bona-fide retard and a hardheaded zealot in my grass-roots belief
Group promoting climate skepticism has extensive ties to Exxon-Mobil
That's the dumbest sh'it I've ever heard.
We are a debtor nation.
This is out of our hands now.
Oh my god! Data!
Water runs downhill.
Not a skeptic... and I care a little.... But I just can't care too much...
Calm, reason, think critically. Be skeptical.
Oh my god! Data!
Water runs downhill.
Not a skeptic... and I care a little.... But I just can't care too much...
Calm, reason, think critically. Be skeptical.
I'm sure it's riveting, honest, and factually correct.
But we shall see.
As one pundit put it,
duh?
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Jan 19, 2014 - 11:20am PT
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Oh my god! Data!
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Jan 19, 2014 - 02:40pm PT
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all this eco-frenzy ideology, get into your gas guzzling C02 emitting Van and drive around the West, aimlessly and selfishly, climbing.
Obviously doing your part to Walk your Talk.....
Nice.
obviously doing your part to perpetuate moronic imaginary bullsh#t.
a great sound and fury, signifying nothing.
christ
it is just relentless stupidity
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
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Jan 19, 2014 - 02:52pm PT
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Wade,I was born in Pittsburgh ,I do remember the "cloud" of the mills.
I stood atop Cow Mountain,where my grandfather and his father are buried and remember my eyes burning ,just above a brown cloud in the valley.
I could not agree more.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jan 19, 2014 - 04:29pm PT
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Not nice to speak about your fellow eco-freak obvious politically based agenda "Do as I say NOT as I do" brethren in that fashion... Wade.
So sayeth Chief Number One.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Jan 19, 2014 - 04:46pm PT
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I am not following this "discussion" closely, but have you discussed ocean acidification due to the increased levels of CO2?
I've mentioned it. Oddly, ocean acidification is the main way that organic carbon is deposited and later turned into oil and natural gas...
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Jan 19, 2014 - 04:50pm PT
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I am not following this "discussion" closely, but have you discussed ocean acidification due to the increased levels of CO2?
This single problem should be good enough to stop burning carbon based fuels. I've heard ocean acidification called "global warming's evil twin." Part of the same problem: you can't throw anything away.
But acidification is just one facet of how we're changing the world's oceans.There as much as anywhere, the note k-man kicked off this thread with hits home:
We're treating the Earth like Keith Moon treated a hotel room.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Jan 19, 2014 - 04:56pm PT
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Kieth Moon is,
China
Are you ready to go kick his ass for trashing the room?
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monolith
climber
SF bay area
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Jan 19, 2014 - 05:58pm PT
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Base, better listen to the Chief. He wants you to refer to organic carbon as just carbon. Not sure why, but he has thus declared.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
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Jan 19, 2014 - 06:11pm PT
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Yeah,All Compounds are organic in Chef's world also.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Jan 19, 2014 - 06:12pm PT
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I gave up talking to Napoleon. Dude has narcissistic personality disorder or something.
Shales are deposited in low energy, typically deep water environments. Carbon is rarely preserved in reasonable quantities in oxygen rich environments. The carbon gets chowed down by the local biota.
Carbon raining down from dead little critters is preserved in anoxic environments. These organic rich mudstones end up sourcing the world's hydrocarbon deposits after they are buried to a certain temperature pressure window.
So global anoxic events can also cause global ocean acidification. Oddly, the acidification events are often greenhouse events.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
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Jan 19, 2014 - 06:22pm PT
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Wait for it.....
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jonnyrig
Trad climber
formerly known as hillrat
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Jan 19, 2014 - 09:05pm PT
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And a fine sunny 60 degree day here in mid-january it was. No snow, no cold, no big storms on the horizon. Maybe its just the new normal? Maybe we,re screwed either way.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 19, 2014 - 10:47pm PT
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The Chief, it looks like you missed this in Ed's post:
"The Chief didn't make the plot that he is showing around... so The Chief can't attest to the authenticity of the data, The Chief can't explain what the data means, and The Chief certainly doesn't understand anything about the treatment of variability."
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Jan 19, 2014 - 10:57pm PT
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