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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Jun 23, 2015 - 07:08am PT
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Meanwhile up in Oregon, Nestle's (huge Euro corp.) is trying to buy the best and most reliable water source in the state, and for some reason the politicians are signing off on it, even though citizens are fighting it like crazy. Can you say "corruption and graft"? Sure, I knew you could..
Looks like it's going to happen. What a lunatic fringe thing to do.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jun 24, 2015 - 01:12pm PT
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Found a couple year old water bill for one month. Never looked at it in detail before.
$18.37 CV City Sewer Charge (34.5%)
$14.01 SD CWA Infrastructure Access (26.3%)
$6.32 Water charge (2992 gallons) (11.9%) .00211/gal
$14.48 Water System Fee (27.2%)
$53.28 Total
This would be all tier one usage. I can't remember how the tiers are structured.
325,851 gallons/acre foot
Appears to be a water cost to the comsumer of $688/acre foot
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son of stan
Boulder climber
San Jose CA
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Jun 24, 2015 - 04:15pm PT
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Surrounding the politicians homes and shouting angrily has
been known to get their attention.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Jun 24, 2015 - 04:35pm PT
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Actually, I wouldn't think so. Nationwide, they don't have to pump their water thousands of feet over mountain ranges.
The $900 is treatment, not pumping costs. That's way off.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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I'm curious TGT, given your business, what you think of the viability of such a long water delivery system as suggested by stealing water from the Great Lakes, for example. Not just cost, but well, the whole idea...
Thanks!
DMT
If we were willing to build about a dozen or so nuke plants to run the pumps it could be done.
A whole industrial infrastructure would have to be rebuilt to do it. I don't think any pipe mills, foundries etc. even exist anymore outside of China that could produce the infrastructure. Right now almost all large castings for machinery come from either China or Brazil. Even if the end product is assembled here almost all of the components are outsourced.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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The $900 is treatment, not pumping costs. That's way off.
I'm not sure where you get that. As I read the reports, that is the cost of the treated water by MWD delivered to a city's connecting pipes.
I know that LADWP does not buy treated water, it does the treatment itself, as it is large enough to support the infrastructure.
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Lollie
Social climber
I'm Lolli.
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Jul 12, 2015 - 02:41pm PT
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Studly, Nestle is the epitome of a rotten and greedy corporation. They make Monsanto look as Mother Theresa. They kill babies. Second time recently. First time was in the sixties - the Nestle-babies. Just another one of the scandals concerning them throughout history.
Don't let them buy your water.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Jul 12, 2015 - 03:31pm PT
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What never appears in these articles is that the primary reason for aging recycled water in an aquifer is that it is so pure that it would dissolve your teeth and bones if you drank it on a regular basis. Pure water with no mineral content isn't good for you!
The water coming out of a AWT facility is deionized water. It is so pure that you have to use stainless steel piping and fittings so that they aren't eaten up by the ultra pure water.
Seawater desalination systems produce the same level of purity and the same piping requirements. You either have to have a lime system to add calcium or age the DI water underground in an aquifer where the pH will balance by dissolving local minerals to make the water safe for regular consumption.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Jul 12, 2015 - 05:44pm PT
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No myth!
Passivated 316 stainless steel or plastic is the specified piping system for DI water because you'll eat up carbon steel or cement lined piping in short order.
I guess they spent a few million on the calcining towers at Carlsbad, (and every other seawater RO plant) just for shits and giggles.
It's all about the pH.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Jul 12, 2015 - 06:02pm PT
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Check with Cal DHS and see if they will allow DI water for regular human consumption and get back to us.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jul 12, 2015 - 06:24pm PT
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Thanks for that clarification TGT.
So if I'm understanding it, there is either ten miles of stainless steel pipe (what grade?) running from Carlsbad to the reservoir or the water is getting additives before starting it's journey?
EDIT: I missed all the intervening posts. Good thing they didn't have to use copper. It would not have stayed in place long enough for completed the flume.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Jul 12, 2015 - 06:37pm PT
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Not talking about the reservoir, the Desal plant!
http://carlsbaddesal.com/
The Cacification towers are the last stage before the pump station to the San Diego WA Aqueduct. Not sure it even hits that reservoir.
There's another problem with copper, that's MWD's switch to chloramination instead of simple chlorine addition. That's forced all of their member agencies to adopt chloramination and if you have lower quality (read Chinese) copper plumbing in your house you will at some time in the not so distant future have the pleasure of dealing with pinhole leaks and a whole house re-piping.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jul 12, 2015 - 06:54pm PT
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As I understand it, the water travels 10 miles from the plant in Carlsbad to the reservoir.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Jul 12, 2015 - 06:59pm PT
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Yeah, it's a big uphill push.
We just sold high five figures worth of chlorination pumps that had to have special alloy heads due to the pressures involved.
Sodium hypochlorite (bleach) doesn't play well with metals. You have to use machined from billet Hasteloy C (cast won't work) or titanium.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jul 12, 2015 - 07:03pm PT
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There's another problem with copper, that's MWD's switch to chloramination instead of simple chlorine addition. That's forced all of their member agencies to adopt chloramination and if you have lower quality (read Chinese) copper plumbing in your house you will at some time in the not so distant future have the pleasure of dealing with pinhole leaks and a whole house re-piping.
I knew the ST was good for something besides jokes. Now how does one go about assessing the grade of copper used in the repipe I already did?
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Jul 12, 2015 - 07:03pm PT
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You wait for the repeated leaks to appear.
(I smell a class action lawsuit here)
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Jul 12, 2015 - 08:26pm PT
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hey there say, TGT and all... i never knew there was so much MORE to learn about water, and how it's handled... i wish they would have taught us more about that in school... :(
thanks for sharing, everyone... i still may not get all this sorted out, but it really IS interesting...
i hope whatever goes on, though, that it will work out, as real help, and not just 'tease everyone' into thinking that all is well... :(
i am going to go read that san diego link, now... oh my...
zbrown, sadly, i am not sure what to do with the info, but THANK you for sharing all the water-info maps... (i think it was you, but i will check)
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MisterE
Gym climber
Being In Sierra Happy Of Place
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Jul 12, 2015 - 09:45pm PT
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From recent reports, the smaller of the two Palisades glaciers is all but gone.
Snow isn't bringing that back...
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