risking his life to tell you about NSA surveillance [ot]

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couchmaster

climber
pdx
Aug 2, 2013 - 11:24am PT
I don't know and can't say Steve. Looks like the cops are still trying to get the corrected story straight though:

Updated version says:
"The Guardian reported that an FBI spokesperson said that Catalano "was visited by Nassau County police department … working in conjunction with Suffolk County police department." (Catalano apparently lives on Long Island, most likely in Nassau County.)

Detective Garcia of the Nassau County Police, however, told The Atlantic Wire by phone that his department was "not involved in any way." Similarly, FBI spokesperson Peter Donald confirmed with The Atlantic Wire that his agency wasn't involved in the visit. He also stated that he could not answer whether or not the agency provided information that led to the visit, as he didn't know."

jstan

climber
Aug 2, 2013 - 12:16pm PT
The current situation has been and is being very badly played IMO.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Aug 2, 2013 - 01:50pm PT
Joe, I see you're still stuck on the messenger ...
Josh Nash

Social climber
riverbank ca
Aug 2, 2013 - 02:34pm PT
“Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. I know why you did it. I know you were afraid. Who wouldn't be? War, terror, disease. There were a myriad of problems which conspired to corrupt your reason and rob you of your common sense. ”
― Alan Moore, V for Vendetta

who would have thought instead of being social commentary the graphic novel became a sad predictor of our current state of affairs.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Aug 2, 2013 - 08:59pm PT
The trick is not to become focused and assign blame on the front running puppets. Although the entire current crop of TV puppet 'leaders' in D.C. certainly deserve to be hung, that would solve nothing and perhaps provide a very false sense of justice. And these puppets WILL be sacrificed if the real truth is near the light.

I still think the truth about what might have happened in Benghazi is what the puppets are most terrified of. The effort expended to hype the nonsense with Trayvon kept the sheeple occupied for weeks. Even Snowden, perhaps troublesome to the regime, seems waaaay overhyped for the information he has presented so far.

Smoke, mirrors, debt people, look past them....

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 3, 2013 - 04:37pm PT
I also feel unsafe and unclean.
But I'm gonna take a shower and get into my Volvo to go see me mum.
Then I'll be ok.
paganmonkeyboy

climber
mars...it's near nevada...
Aug 3, 2013 - 04:54pm PT
y'all realize these tools have probably already been used to blackmail congresspeople, judges, etc to vote/rule the way special interests want them to, right ?
paganmonkeyboy

climber
mars...it's near nevada...
Aug 3, 2013 - 05:32pm PT
but now I can do it to anyone, anywhere, with the push of a button instead of with boots on the ground...

you are witnessing a thousandfold increase in effective use - seriously. if not more so...all I have to do is push a button, run a sort, grep some keywords...

and does the fact that it's been done before make it ok now ? with these tools ? what does that have to do with anything ?
paganmonkeyboy

climber
mars...it's near nevada...
Aug 3, 2013 - 10:05pm PT
do you work with computers ? i get the simple feeling you fail to grasp what this new sh#t really does/is/etc...

and BullSh#t - Hoover could do NOTHING like this. I call you out on that.

and if you think the people we voted for are the ones making these decisions, you are a fool.
paganmonkeyboy

climber
mars...it's near nevada...
Aug 3, 2013 - 10:42pm PT
what were you reading last night ?

oh wait - we prolly already know...
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Aug 4, 2013 - 09:04pm PT
Hey, they all want in on it now!

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/04/us/other-agencies-clamor-for-data-nsa-compiles.html?pagewanted=1&_r=0&hp
Dropline

Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
Aug 4, 2013 - 10:47pm PT
From the American Library Association website

Privacy is essential to the exercise of free speech, free thought, and free association. The courts have established a First Amendment right to receive information in a publicly funded library.1 Further, the courts have upheld the right to privacy based on the Bill of Rights of the U.S. Constitution.2 Many states provide guarantees of privacy in their constitutions and statute law.3 Numerous decisions in case law have defined and extended rights to privacy.4

In a library (physical or virtual), the right to privacy is the right to open inquiry without having the subject of one’s interest examined or scrutinized by others. Confidentiality exists when a library is in possession of personally identifiable information about users and keeps that information private on their behalf.5

Protecting user privacy and confidentiality has long been an integral part of the mission of libraries. The ALA has affirmed a right to privacy since 1939.6 Existing ALA policies affirm that confidentiality is crucial to freedom of inquiry.7 Rights to privacy and confidentiality also are implicit in the Library Bill of Rights’8 guarantee of free access to library resources for all users.

The same protections should be afforded us on our computers in the privacy of our own homes.
FRUMY

Trad climber
Bishop,CA
Aug 4, 2013 - 11:12pm PT
^^^ that be right ^^^
Dropline

Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
Aug 5, 2013 - 06:53am PT
The ISPs , telcos, and social media sites should have the same responsibilities as libraries, and the sames kinds of laws that protect library usage records should be codified to protect the privacy of our internet usage records. The internet is effectively the modern library.

TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Aug 5, 2013 - 11:00am PT
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A secretive U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration unit is funneling information from intelligence intercepts, wiretaps, informants and a massive database of telephone records to authorities across the nation to help them launch criminal investigations of Americans.

Although these cases rarely involve national security issues, documents reviewed by Reuters show that law enforcement agents have been directed to conceal how such investigations truly begin - not only from defense lawyers but also sometimes from prosecutors and judges.

The undated documents show that federal agents are trained to "recreate" the investigative trail to effectively cover up where the information originated, a practice that some experts say violates a defendant's Constitutional right to a fair trial. If defendants don't know how an investigation began, they cannot know to ask to review potential sources of exculpatory evidence - information that could reveal entrapment, mistakes or biased witnesses.

http://news.yahoo.com/exclusive-u-directs-agents-cover-program-used-investigate-091643729.html

I guess this is just fine with the Obamunists.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Aug 6, 2013 - 02:45am PT
A gripping read:

Welcome to Post-Constitution America
    Peter Van Buren


Government officials concerned over possible wrongdoing in their departments or agencies who “go through proper channels” are fired or prosecuted. Government whistleblowers are commanded to return to face justice, while law-breakers in the service of the government are allowed to flee justice. CIA officers who destroy evidence of torture go free, while a CIA agent who blew the whistle on torture is locked up.

Secret laws and secret courts can create secret law you can’t know about for “crimes” you don’t even know exist. You can nonetheless be arrested for committing them. Thanks to the PATRIOT Act, citizens, even librarians, can be served by the FBI with a National Security Letter (not requiring a court order) demanding records and other information, and gagging them from revealing to anyone that such information has been demanded or such a letter delivered. Citizens may be held without trial, and denied their Constitutional rights as soon as they are designated “terrorists.” Lawyers and habeas corpus are available only when the government allows.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Aug 6, 2013 - 02:59am PT
... why trust the telco's and ISP's, but not the gov't?


I don't trust the telco's and ISPs, but the gov't has militarized police. See the above post (and read the article) and you might begin to get an idea of why trusting the gov't with this type of data might not be in our own best interest.
crøtch

climber
Aug 6, 2013 - 11:51am PT
I'm not sure if this has already been posted. PBS interview with two NSA whistleblowers and an NSA official who have wildly different claims about the amount of information that is being collected on US citizens.

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Aug 6, 2013 - 11:58am PT
Members of Congress denied access to basic information about NSA

Documents provided by two House members demonstrate how they are blocked from exercising any oversight over domestic surveillance

"Members of Congress have been repeatedly thwarted when attempting to learn basic information about the National Security Agency (NSA) and the secret FISA court which authorizes its activities, documents provided by two House members demonstrate.

From the beginning of the NSA controversy, the agency's defenders have insisted that Congress is aware of the disclosed programs and exercises robust supervision over them. "These programs are subject to congressional oversight and congressional reauthorization and congressional debate," President Obama said the day after the first story on NSA bulk collection of phone records was published in this space. "And if there are members of Congress who feel differently, then they should speak up."

But members of Congress, including those in Obama's party, have flatly denied knowing about them. On MSNBC on Wednesday night, Sen. Richard Blumenthal (D-Ct) was asked by host Chris Hayes: "How much are you learning about what the government that you are charged with overseeing and holding accountable is doing from the newspaper and how much of this do you know?" The Senator's reply:

The revelations about the magnitude, the scope and scale of these surveillances, the metadata and the invasive actions surveillance of social media Web sites were indeed revelations to me."


But it is not merely that members of Congress are unaware of the very existence of these programs, let alone their capabilities. Beyond that, members who seek out basic information - including about NSA programs they are required to vote on and FISA court (FISC) rulings on the legality of those programs - find that they are unable to obtain it.

Two House members, GOP Rep. Morgan Griffith of Virginia and Democratic Rep. Alan Grayson of Florida, have provided the Guardian with numerous letters and emails documenting their persistent, and unsuccessful, efforts to learn about NSA programs and relevant FISA court rulings."

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/04/congress-nsa-denied-access
nah000

climber
canuckistan
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 7, 2013 - 11:39pm PT
i'm genuinely curious. those of you who defend nsa mass surveillance as being necessary in a post 9/11 world, does the following cross a line for you or are you down with this too:

"As the NSA scoops up phone records and other forms of electronic evidence while investigating national security and terrorism leads, they turn over "tips" to a division of the Drug Enforcement Agency ("DEA") known as the Special Operations Division ("SOD"). FISA surveillance was originally supposed to be used only in certain specific, authorized national security investigations, but information sharing rules implemented after 9/11 allows the NSA to hand over information to traditional domestic law-enforcement agencies, without any connection to terrorism or national security investigations.

But instead of being truthful with criminal defendants, judges, and even prosecutors about where the information came from, DEA agents are reportedly obscuring the source of these tips. For example, a law enforcement agent could receive a tip from SOD—which SOD, in turn, got from the NSA—to look for a specific car at a certain place. But instead of relying solely on that tip, the agent would be instructed to find his or her own reason to stop and search the car. Agents are directed to keep SOD under wraps and not mention it in "investigative reports, affidavits, discussions with prosecutors and courtroom testimony," according to Reuters."



in sum we now have reuter's reporting that the nsa sometimes sends tips and evidence gleaned from their surveillance programs, about non-terrorism "crimes" to the dea who then continue the chain by sometimes informing the irs.

and then both the dea and the irs hide the fact that the original tip and or evidence came from the nsa.



i'm certain, they keep this hidden because it's completely legal and done with congress' oversight. /s
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