Cerro Torre, A Mountain Consecrated - The Resurrection of th

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enzolino

climber

Galgenen, Switzerland

Jan 30, 2012 - 11:03am PT

Piton Ron,Bridwell called Maestri a pussy for his actions and bolting.I think that sums up what Jim thinks. =D

I've read Jim Bridwell's book.
For him everybody, except himself, is a pussy.
He is the last ultimate true man.

The funny thing is that he places bolts on his routes, but gets mad if everybody else does it ...

Very high example of consistency ...

Johnny K.

climber

Jan 30, 2012 - 11:04am PT

Ohh cry me a river,Bridwell is legit as they come.

philo

Trad climber

Somewhere halfway over the rainbow

Jan 30, 2012 - 11:06am PT

Instead of twisting your panties in the public punch bowl why don't you angry Italians go make a real bold statement. Get your haul on, fire up a gas powered compressor and finish that route on Latok that those four American Pussies couldn't do. Though they climbed by fair means and never falsely "claimed" a summit. That must be an American failing.

Studly

Trad climber

Jan 30, 2012 - 11:13am PT

some day this war's going to end....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBksHaTQCbU&feature=related

enzolino

climber

Galgenen, Switzerland

Jan 30, 2012 - 11:15am PT

Come on philo ... don't make me laugh ... you and all those boys who play about "national climbing performance" ...

Italians don't need to prove anything ...
Ferrari, in 1974, climbed Cerro Torre "by fair means" ...
And the list of fair mains and outstanding Italian achievements is too long to be counted ...
Just few names ...
Bonatti, Cassin, Messner, Ferrari, Hans Kammerlander, Simone Moro (who now is attempting Nanga Parbat in winter, fingers crossed ..), and so on ...

But if you want to play ... let's play ...
Are you talking to me????

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Jan 30, 2012 - 11:31am PT

I agree Enzo... Italian climbers have done quite a few things American climbers couldn't do and for sure I seriously doubt that the chopping of bolts on CT is the peak achievement of American mountaineering. LOL...

enzolino

climber

Galgenen, Switzerland

Jan 30, 2012 - 11:36am PT

Well ... we can say americans (but let's not forget canadians) are good at something ...

We can say they are the best choppers in the world ... LOL

PS. My boss is american (a great person!) ... if he reads this stuff ... he will fire me!!! :-)

JLP

Social climber

The internet

Jan 30, 2012 - 11:38am PT

philo

Trad climber

Somewhere halfway over the rainbow

Jan 30, 2012 - 11:48am PT

Italians don't need to prove anything ...
Ferrari, in 1974, climbed Cerro Torre "by fair means" ...
And the list of fair mains and outstanding Italian achievements is too long to be counted ...
Just few names ...
Bonatti, Cassin, Messner, Ferrari, Hans Kammerlander, Simone Moro (who now is attempting Nanga Parbat in winter, fingers crossed ..), and so on ...

Enzolino there are a great many of us old school American climbers who are well aware of and in awe of what Italian Alpinists and Mountaineers have accomplished. It is truly one of the proudest histories. I for one am an avid follower of their incredible achievements. Except for the Bolt Route on Cerro Torre. That was an aberration and an atrocity. Which is why many of the remarkable Italian climbers you mentioned are them selves appalled by what Maestri did.
It is honestly baffling to many of us why some of you vehemently insist on hallowing this alpine abomination. Even when you yourselves decry the route as having been done in bad style.

My Latok comment was meant to be absurd. Because this thread has become absurd.
Re-bolting Cerro Torre or un-bolting the Nose is just verbal masturbation. Messy and unsatisfying.

PS. My boss is american (a great person!) ... if he reads this stuff ... he will fire me!!! :-)

Enzo, if he tries you tell him that SuperTopo will open up a can of whoop ass American style on him.
We don't have to agree but you have a right to your opinions and shouldn't face dismissal because of expressing them. Cheers.

philo

Trad climber

Somewhere halfway over the rainbow

Jan 30, 2012 - 12:03pm PT

Ever beat a dead horse with a different stick?
It makes a phunny sound. :)

healyje

Trad climber

Portland, Oregon

Jan 30, 2012 - 12:09pm PT

...the locals consider Maestri's bolts sacred ... it's thanks to the Compressor's route that the place has some business ...

Here's what the local outrage really boils down to - not climbing, but the commercialization of an abortion.

Shake your money maker
Like somebody about to pay you
I see you on my radar
Don't you act like you afraid of
Shh...

You know I got it
If you want it, come get it
Stand next to this money
Like - ey ey ey

Shake your money maker
Like somebody boutta pay you
Don't worry about them haters
Keep your nose up in the air
You know I got it

If you want it, come get it
Stand next to this money
Like - ey ey ey

enzolino

climber

Galgenen, Switzerland

Jan 30, 2012 - 12:10pm PT

Philo,
I know.
It looks paradoxical.
Perhaps because we read Maestri's books and became very empathic towards him. His traumatic experience the first time, the anger because of the mistrust, his extravagant character, and so on.
Perhaps because we were familiar with the "dark" age of superdirettissimas and the bolt ladders of that period in Dolomite. But that period made ethic stronger, and Messner great purism was an example of reaction to that period. He (Messner) made outstanding climbs in the Alps, before Himalaya, solo or with his partners.
So, the "dark period" for us was part of the learning process.
If the chopping would have been carried on differently, without that unfair anti-Maestri propaganda, I think many italians would have supported the chopping of the Compressor route.
But the way it occurred, very despectively towards Maestri and the learning process that we call "history", pisses off many of us.

philo

Trad climber

Somewhere halfway over the rainbow

Jan 30, 2012 - 12:12pm PT

Understood.

Clearly I disagree but I do now understand better. Thank you.

Gene

climber

Jan 30, 2012 - 12:17pm PT

Nice post, Enzolino.

healyje

Trad climber

Portland, Oregon

Jan 30, 2012 - 12:40pm PT

But the way it occurred, very disrespectively towards Maestri and the learning process that we call "history", pisses off many of us.

Trying to rationalize what occurred in 1970 or pass it off as simply a part of, or an extension to, a natural "learning process", is what pisses off many others of us. It was neither, and no one in the whole sad compressor saga has disrespected Maestri more the he himself has.

uli__

climber

Milan, Italy

Jan 30, 2012 - 12:44pm PT

blah blah blah, anyway lads went abroad to chop torre, rest assured that if they chopped the nose rangers would have jailed them and thrown away the key for a long while

easy choice for them, isn't it?

healyje

Trad climber

Portland, Oregon

Jan 30, 2012 - 12:46pm PT

blah, blah, blah is right - commercialism and entirely misplaced nationalism.

Mighty Hiker

climber

Vancouver, B.C.

Jan 30, 2012 - 12:46pm PT

How long will it be before the Kruk/Kennedy line, or the Lama line, or whatever is the line of least resistance on the headwall, is dumbed down by the addition of fixed pins, maybe a bolt here and there, and so on? So that it is again more accessible, perhaps at the behest of commercial interests? It's a progression that tends to happen elsewhere.

We can perhaps agree that if the southeast ridge is in effect the descent for all routes on Cerro Torre, it makes some sense if there are fixed rappel stations, to minimize junk proliferation. Hopefully more or less corresponding to required belays. But with that, and perhaps some fixed pins and added bolts, it may again be less of a challenge.

One note in all of this is of course that Jason tried the climb a year ago, with Chris Geisler from Vancouver. They were defeated only 40 m from the icecap, and the route Jason and Hayden took this year is much the same. Chris should get some credit for helping create the new line.