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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Big question -- why not?
The Dems are wimps and pussies like the GOP are killers and abusers....Fair enough?
(and I mean wimps politically at home, they are obvious capable of killing lots of people in Afghanistan and getting us into new conflicts (Libya) and getting Bin Laden in bold raids. The difference, the influence of Elite power and money makes DEMs rule like GOP even when the GOP is out of power)
Maybe they like to keep the power they inherited from Bush, and there was a negative public reaction (fanned by fox news etc) to trying KSM in New York (or maybe they didn't want a pubic trial exposing any dirt)
Now take the OT issues on another thread.
Peace
Karl
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dirtbag
climber
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You really are stuck on Stupid, SUAP....
Too bad, that.
STFAP also doesn't listen.
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monolith
climber
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Turns out everyone (and their congressman) was so afraid of having these ultra-dangerous detainees stateside. Guess the Bin Laden raid proved what crack killers these Top Al Queda guys are
Horses for courses, Karl. You would not have seen Bin Laden hijacking a plane any more than you would have seen Obama in the compound raiding party.
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apogee
climber
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Hey, fattrad- you've been called out on the 'Death/Republicans' thread to explain this statement of yours:
"Republicans have been forced into more extreme positions due the extrme liberalism begun under FDR.'
You wouldn't be hiding from it over here, would you?
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Why even debate him guys...
He may as well be a tape recorder for the macabre.
There is no brain, reason, or sense of reality there....
thats why Alice has had such a good time with him this morning...
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apogee
climber
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"A lot of you now defend Obamas actions which are the SAME as Bush....Where are those cries for "bringing evil" to justice now??? "
How about an example, Ron?
And, the difference b/w Shrub & Obama in how they handled OBL...Obama got him.
That's what will go down in the history books.
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apogee
climber
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fattrad, it's only been a week.
True enough, some of the Shrub/neocon policies probably laid the groundwork for this, but which of them played a direct or significant role is still unclear. There is no clear evidence that 'enhanced interrogation' techniques produced direct intelligence that lead to Abbottabad.
In any case, this will play out historically just like the economic boon that occurred during the 90's: Clinton = economic growth, Obama = Dead OBL
Edit: Can't forget the opportunity to provide a dig at the GOP with the corollary statement:
Shrub = Economic disaster, gave up on OBL
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apogee
climber
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I am too, fattrad...it's only been a week.
Remember how the GOP backed off on their hyperbole for a few days after Tucson? It was a nice lull, but it didn't last long. The anti-Gitmo voice will be back, soon enough.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Why, Jeff?
Because one one really gives the slightest about Gitmo.
I don't give a damn where they hold those prisoners. Could not care less.
No one I know talks about it or cares about it.
Really only some dipwad on a climbing website who has nothing better to do "pretends"
to care where some people are incarcerated.
If the Republicans would not be so FEARFUL of having them moved, then ok maybe
someday Gitmo is closed.
By guess is maybe 5% of US citizens even know it is the Caribbean.
And they don't know or care who is or is not "held" there.
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apogee
climber
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"Could it be the Bush/Cheney was right??? "
About what?
There isn't any clear evidence (yet) that Gitmo or WB'ing produced the direct intelligence that resulted in OBL's double tap.
If you try real hard to scrape away your ideologic fog for a moment, you'll remember that Shrubco came on hard for a few years after 9/11, then got distracted by Iraq, and the message in the last several years of his reign was 'OBL doesn't matter- forget that guy'. (Which everyone knew was a copout rationalization for his failure.)
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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I don't care, and granted it may be a waste in that those prisoners could be held in
an existing facility elsewhere, Gitmo's cost in a three trillion dollar budget is less than peanuts.
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dirtbag
climber
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Situation Room, or "Girls Gone Wild" photo shoot?
Hillary Clinton's expression, right hand clasped over her mouth in astonishment, is largely responsible for making the above photo iconic--and, to at least one newspaper, sexually suggestive.
Indeed, "The Hasidic newspaper will not intentionally include any images of women in the paper because it could be considered sexually suggestive," Rabbi Jason Miller explains in The Jewish Week.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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There isn't any clear evidence (yet) that Gitmo or WB'ing produced the direct intelligence that resulted in OBL's double tap.
Present CIA director Panetta sure said there was.
Can't get much clearer than that.
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apogee
climber
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"Present CIA director Panetta sure said there was."
Source it, TGT.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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WB,
Thanks for giving out that resource for 9-11 truth. Robert Schopmeyer does awesome research. I've been reading through his DU Journal. He has his book available. I'm gonna buy it on Kindle . . . thanks again for posting the link.
He nails the CIA to the door. Wow, I'm blown-away. We are figuring this massive 9-11 false-flag pys-ops out. Incredible.
Robert Schopmeyer’s DU Journal:
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/rschop
http://www.eventson9/11.com
Compiled exclusively from official US government documents or sources :
Prior Knowledge of 9/11
Posted by rschop in September 11
Mon Dec 20th 2010, 03:29 AM
Review on Amazon.com
5.0 out of 5 stars serious 9/11 research -- not for the faint of heart, September 25, 2010
By
Mark H. Gaffney (Chiloquin, OR USA) - See all my reviews: http://www.amazon.com/gp/pdp/profile/A2EADYDGG9UT1I
This review is for: Prior Knowledge of 9/11 (Kindle Edition): http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0041VYL9K/ref=cm_pdp_rev_itm_img_1
The author Robert Schopmeyer initially accepted the official 9/11 narrative. However, as he writes in his introduction, after attending open sessions of the 9/11 Commission Hearings in 2004 he became "increasingly perplexed regarding the intelligence agencies' excuses for not anticipating and preventing the events of 9/11." Thereafter, the author launched his own review of the pertinent documents. These include the 2002 Joint Inquiry Report prepared by the Joint House/Senate Intelligence Committee, the subsequent 9/11 Commission Report released in 2004, the Report by the FBI's Inspector General, various media sources, and the 2007 Report by the CIA's Inspector General.
The result is an excellent analysis based on a compilation of all of these sources.
The author is to be commended for digging deeper than most other researchers, including, for example, Lawrence Wright (The Looming Tower), whom he leaves in the dust. Schopmeyer shows how, time and again, the CIA withheld key evidence from the FBI, evidence which would have enabled the FBI to roll up the terrorists and prevent the 9/11 attacks. Where Wright insults our intelligence by leaving such loose threads hanging, Schopmeyer offers a rational explanation for the CIA disconnects.
The author concludes that these were not just mis-steps, but a deliberate and criminal pattern of obstruction of those honest investigators who were trying to do their job and protect the nation.
Schopmeyer's conclusion that the CIA (and FBI headquarters) were complicit in the 9/11 attacks is deeply disturbing. True enough. But he presents a tightly argued and persuasive case. Which he further bolsters with additional documentary evidence in the latest edition. The author encouraged me to start with chapter 19, then read Appendix B. This gives the big picture.
PRIOR KNOWLEDGE OF 9/11 adds yet another nail in the coffin of the official conspiracy theory. I give Schopmeyer's book my highest recommendation.
Those who would prefer the hardbound edition, instead of kindle, can acquire the book at www.eventson9/11.com
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apogee
climber
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fattrad, you are diverting the discussion due to a weakness in your argument.
The role of Gitmo & enhanced interrogation has been in question since they started, and recent events haven't justified them any more than they were on May 1. You can bet yer Republican arses that if offing OBL was due in large part to Gitmo or WB'ing (or similar), the rightwing media would obliterate all of the media oxygen with 'we told you so' narratives.
I'm not arguing necessarily that those things aren't useful or sometimes justified, just that recent events do almost nothing to support the policies.
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Gene
climber
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Fattrad,
The SCOTUS ruled in 2006 that GTMO detainees were entitled to the protections outlined in the Geneva Conventions...
Hamdan v. Rumsfeld (June 2006) pretty much spells it out.
http://www.hamdanvrumsfeld.com/05-184.pdf
g
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dirtbag
climber
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9/11: THE TRUTH is out there Sheeple!
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Seriously, get caught fighting on a battlefield without being part of a nations military, no uniform, no patches, you have zero rights, none, nada. Hold them until they die.
This is design to prevent people from going into and out of battles on a whim, hiding with their families by night and battling by day. A sound legal concept and common sense is the "Enemy Combatant".
Obama and Holder dropped teh whole Enemy combatant thing which I quoted earlier in the thread.
I think it makes a difference BTW if you are in your home country. If the United States were invaded and your neighbor tells the invaders you are a fighter and they come drag you out of your home, are you really an enemy combatant? Or even if you pick up your gun and fight em in the back yard?
Guess those right wing types like in Wacko and Ruby Ridge are also enemy combatants who get no trial (if they lived) right?
Peace
Karl
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Obama: NO Apology to Pakistan for killing Bin Laden There:
White House spokesman Jay Carney said President Obama stands by his decision to order a covert assault-team raid to cross into a Pakistani city and kill Osama bin Laden without telling Pakistani officials.
"We obviously take statements and concerns of the Pakistani government very seriously," Carney told reporters at a briefing. "We also do not apologize for the actions that we took. [The President] said back in the [2008] campaign...if this is the only way we can do it, to do it unilaterally, he would take that chance and we did it. It is beyond a doubt in his mind, that he had the right and the imperative to do it."
Carney was responding to the most recent comments by Pakistan Prime Minister Yusuf Raza Gilani and opposition politicians in the country about the May 2 raid and killing of bin Laden. Pakistani officials have welcomed the death of bin Laden but also have complained that the raid was a violation of its sovereignty.
The fact that bin Laden was found in a town full of Pakistani military retirees and near a military school just 30 miles north of Islamabad has lead to U.S. suspicions that at least some elements of the Pakistani government were complicit in helping him obtain refuge from the United States. tpm
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