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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Sep 28, 2010 - 11:48pm PT
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Well I guess that is Klimmer's deal - mix'em all up. That's also bmacd's deal as well - sasquatch as interdimensional aliens. So what the hell, carry on...
And Werner, sorry, I forgot you're the only guy here who's never guessing.
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Wonder
climber
WA
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Sep 28, 2010 - 11:56pm PT
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"So what the hell, carry on..."
Cant stop telling us what to do, eh? I know your type.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Sep 29, 2010 - 12:04am PT
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healyje likes to keep things separate. he started a whole thread for 9/11 discussion just to keep it out of the god thread. someday he'll learn what john muir had to say--everything in the universe is hitched to everything else.
thanks for the account, wonder. we also have an ST thread on the sonora pass monster. i camped up there recently--the subject was gentle on my mind.
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Wonder
climber
WA
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Sep 29, 2010 - 12:07am PT
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Thanks Tony, I always appreciate your posts.
I dont care if anyone want to move my post to the proper spot.
edit: i love thread drift
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Wonder
climber
WA
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Sep 29, 2010 - 12:29am PT
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Oh talk about thread drift, I posted this pic on For Werner thread
Now tell me if you all dont think this is a depiction of an alien. This is another pic I took at the NM in delhi of an ancient stone carving from yeah back in the day. No cameras so this is what they saw.
Click on the pic to enlarge & check out the little aliens sitting in saucers flying around Vishnu.
And they called them gods.
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WBraun
climber
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Sep 29, 2010 - 01:12am PT
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Science only goes so far.
And ... then comes
GOD .......
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
I've lost track...
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Sep 29, 2010 - 01:31am PT
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This is actually a pretty interesting thread if you can just disregard the stench from the agent provocateurs...
Many of the disrespectful comments obviously come from people who really just haven't done their homework; or else are intentionally trying to muddy the waters.
There has been a lot of careful research done in this area that deserves better than sensationalized rudeness. My theory is that eventually the truth will become obvious, one way or another.
Some people are setting themselves up to get a lot of egg in their face. There is really no point choosing sides in the food fight. And it would be pretty tiresome to keep posting corrections regarding various well researched facts.
Right now truth is not at all obvious because of all the hyped up disinformation. I think it is well worth asking why there is so much noise on the subject. But then you could ask the same question about religion...(and perhaps it is a related question...)
I work in the space program and know that it is just not all that expensive or impossible to go exploring off the planet. It is certainly challenging and with various non-intuitive lessons to learn. However it is not at all so obvious why we have waited so long to go out and explore instead of just traveling millions of miles in little circles around the earth; once around every 90 minutes at 17,500 mph in a vehicle larger than a football field.
However if you don't want to do your homework, please go find somewhere else to raise a stench. The world is full of opportunities for you...
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Sep 29, 2010 - 03:06am PT
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I work in the space program...
Oh my, well then do tell good sir. Explain the inexpensive solutions to unlimited energy, time travel, and protection from interstellar radiation. Sounds like it shouldn't take more than a thoughtful post or two. Oh, and please explain how and why it is so many alien civilizations are visiting our planet in next to no time at all. And of course, why none of them would even have the courtesy to say hello once they got here.
I'm all ears, really.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 29, 2010 - 03:36am PT
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WASHINGTON, D.C., Sept. 28, 2010
Ex-Air Force Personnel: UFOs Deactivated Nukes
Say Reports of Unexplained Lights in Sky Near Missile Sites Corresponded With Mysterious Shut-Downs of ICBMs
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/09/28/national/main6907702.shtml?tag=stack
Several of the ex-servicemembers speaking Monday said when they'd brought their concern of such appearances to superiors, they'd been told it was "top secret" or that it "didn't happen."
Hastings suggested the presence of such phenomena meant that aliens were monitoring our weapons, and perhaps warning us - "a sign to Washington and Moscow that we are playing with fire," as he was quoted in the Telegraph.
Hastings predicted a "paradigm shift" in the mindset of humanity owing to the existence of alien life.
"Traditional institutions such as religions, governments, other social institutions may be threatened by what is coming. That is just the logical consequence of what is about to occur."
True only for those without faith in GOD and salvation through Jesus Christ. Those who know the Word of GOD, actually read and study their Bible, have read the Book of Enoch, and other Apocrypha know what this means and what is coming. Jesus told us to watch and be ready. "As in the days of Noah, so shall it be in the coming of the son of Man," Jesus said.
Think about it. If you truly have faith in GOD, then you already know GOD is ET (Extraterrestrial = off Earth), all the Heavenly Host is ET (Extraterrestrial = off Earth), Heaven is an actual location (ET destination = off Earth, the abode of GOD, and we have no clue exactly where in the Universe this is. Perhaps the center where the expansion of the Universe from the point of singularity first occurred??? Just guessing).
It did challenge me before I really understood all of this, but now that I know and it fits right into place within the Word of GOD, now I know. It doesn't challenge me now. My faith is secure and I know the truth.
I don't trust these UFOs/ET with a ten foot pole, I know what they are and what they mean, and what their intentions are. Yes, they are brilliantly smart and know the Laws of Physics well beyond mankind, we can learn from them and accept the advanced knowledge and technology, but we of faith know what they really want. They will have some good and truthful messages, like nuclear disarmament. I think we can all agree we shouldn't have nuclear bombs. That is like giving a baby a loaded gun. We can't handle it. But what they really want is to be worshipped as our Creator. Read the Good Book and Jesus's 40 day of temptations in the Wilderness to know this truth. All lies wrapped in truth are much easier to swallow. Don't swallow it.
Sorry, that job title has already been taken. The Good Book says there is only one GOD, YAHWEY, and his Son Jesus Christ, YESHUA, and the Holy Ghost (The Trinity), and that we are to Love and Worship YHWY, The Trinity only.
The Good Book also says to try all spirits to see whether they are of GOD. All spirits and entities of GOD know the Laws of the Universe, The Two Great Commandments, and abide by them. These ETs know them and do not abide by them, therefore they are not of GOD, and not to be trusted.
Like I said, take the keys to the flying saucers and spacecrafts, take the knowledge of clean unlimited renewable energy, but leave the rest. Tell them to take off and watch only. Hands off mankind.
They tremble at the name of Jesus Christ. Remember that. That should be in everyone's survival kit. Have Jesus Christ in your heart.
I tell you all these things because I care.
You want to know more check-out:
PhD Chuck Missler
PhD Michael Heiser
PhD Steven Yulish
David Flynn
Tim McHyde
This is actually a pretty interesting thread if you can just disregard the stench from the agent provocateurs...
Many of the disrespectful comments obviously come from people who really just haven't done their homework; or else are intentionally trying to muddy the waters.
There has been a lot of careful research done in this area that deserves better than sensationalized rudeness. My theory is that eventually the truth will become obvious, one way or another.
Some people are setting themselves up to get a lot of egg in their face. There is really no point choosing sides in the food fight. And it would be pretty tiresome to keep posting corrections regarding various well researched facts.
Right now truth is not at all obvious because of all the hyped up disinformation. I think it is well worth asking why there is so much noise on the subject. But then you could ask the same question about religion...(and perhaps it is a related question...)
I work in the space program and know that it is just not all that expensive or impossible to go exploring off the planet. It is certainly challenging and with various non-intuitive lessons to learn. However it is not at all so obvious why we have waited so long to go out and explore instead of just traveling millions of miles in little circles around the earth; once around every 90 minutes at 17,500 mph in a vehicle larger than a football field.
However if you don't want to do your homework, please go find somewhere else to raise a stench. The world is full of opportunities for you...
Tom, I do really appreciate your input here. You have really good and inside knowledgeable things to say.
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Wonder
climber
WA
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Sep 29, 2010 - 04:03am PT
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hj, didnt I tell you to stop telling people what to do.
You will be the next rajmit around here. Now go away.
Look it up kid, you wont out live this.
Edit: your pathetic attempts at passive aggressiveness is so girley-man.
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
I've lost track...
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Sep 29, 2010 - 04:28am PT
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Healyje, you know very well that you can ask more questions than I can have ready answers. And you haven't exactly been the politest voice here. However I will make a few suggestions:
Energy is a very touchy subject with more myths about it than any other subject that people get embroiled about. There is no shortage of energy; the physical universe is made out of it. The challenge is energy management. It's like putting water meters on fish in the Pacific Ocean. I have worked with DOE on the NIF and been associated with SLAC. Look into the issues of radioactive thermal generators (RTGs), fusion engines and fission power sources and electro-static and electro-magnetic propulsion systems. Most of the real research is carefully classified and compartmental. But it's all on the web if you bother to do your homework and can sort out the disinformation. Check into managing weak force and strong force bonding high on the periodic table. Or start making insulting comments and end your learning process.
I point out that easily monopolized technologies are heavily supported. Technologies that are difficult to monopolize are heavily suppressed. Look at Tesla's development record from Edison's direct current, to alternating current transmission, to transmission of radio communications (Marconi lost the law suit from the Tesla Company), to transmission of energy (heavily suppressed top secret, as you can't charge for it).
Meanwhile we live on a space ship with a billion year supply of lubricating oil that we are burning into our thin atmosphere for local transportation on the planet surface in a hundred years. Tell me how that makes sense...oh yeah, because you can charge people for it...
We have a long history of canceling great space programs. NASA just keeps getting jerked around by the politicians. We just threw heart and soul for years into the Constellation Program, and the current administration canceled it and threw the agency into yet another major turmoil.
I think the US Titan/Gemini program was one of our best. If we had kept it alive instead of dropping it when we built Apollo/Saturn, we could be still flying two or three crew into space on a regular basis rather than needing half a billion dollars for a shuttle flight. I'm not saying we shouldn't do the heavy lift programs. Just that it would have been economically wise and practical to keep Gemini going also.
So now we are stuck with paying ransom rates to the Russians to ride up to the International Space Station. They run a pretty good business. It costs them about $10 million per launch. Space Adventures has one seat booked on each flight for $40 million. And the US pays at least that much for one American astronaut going to ISS. Oh yeah, that's how we subsidize the Russian space program with taxpayer funding...
Elon Musk has shown us how it can be done much more economically with SpaceX/Falcon 9/Dragon.
And we still have lots of Titan missiles in the bone yard, and we are restoring one at Ames as a test bed. Ames is concentrating on designing small satellites among other things.
Even better than Mercury/Gemini/Apollo was the predecessor Titan/Dyna-Soar X-20. The USAF apparently agrees and just launched a similar vehicle on top of an Atlas.
Apollo/Saturn flights were also very expensive, but we had a viable heavy lift vehicle and literally threw it away. Now the current administration wants us to come up with a heavy lift vehicle again; and the price tag is amazing.
Most of what NASA does is just a cover-up anyways...
I have been suggesting that dealing with space radiation and several other challenges, such as thermal extremes; can be improved by living inside your water tank i.e. a double wall tank around the crew compartment. The water can also be cracked to fuel, used to sustain life on board, and is a great heat sink for thermal control. And water is plentiful on extra-terrestrial bodies. A group of my friends at Ames just proved the moon as a water resource.
It just doesn't take a huge missile to get to space. A Titan is the size of a medium airplane. I think the Redstone/Mercury was bigger than it needs to be.
I have been rabble rousing to break the military monopoly on space travel and give it to adventure sports people. If light weight is important for space travel, then the lightest weight is a skydiver in a space suit. There is a lot going on in that area. I call it up jumping; get out of the airplane and go up. There are lots of skydivers tired of falling out of the sky. The propulsion requirements are not out of reach for private funding. Yves Rossy uses micro-turbines on a folding carbon fiber wing. Visa Parvinian from Finland uses micro-turbines on his boots with a wing suit. Alban Guisler in Munich has many test flights with his strap-on delta winged Gryphon, going to high altitudes and over a hundred miles. He's working up to doing X-15 type flights with it. The Gryphon uses fly-by-wire stabilization and heads-up avionics projected inside the helmet. And hobby rockets are now reaching serious speeds, altitudes and payloads. Bigelow has an orbital hotel ready when you are. These guys all have YouTube videos.
How's that for a start? (And btw i'm not hiding behind an imaginary name...)
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Sep 29, 2010 - 04:30am PT
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Klimmer, Hard to know how one should even respond to a mashup like that. Where do the extradimensional sasquatch fit in to that conceptual blender? Is jesus 10 foot tall, fur-covered shapeshifter or what? How about nessie and the corp circles? Where do they fit in?
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Wonder
climber
WA
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Sep 29, 2010 - 04:51am PT
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Oh wait, I just looked at a blow up of your avatar. You are a female. I hope you get paid good for you disinfo work. You so babbling now. I can now call you bitch and it wont matter.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Sep 29, 2010 - 05:06am PT
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Roy, nope, I'm a guy; just another old '70s climber like yourself, but you're more than welcome to come down and get on rock together and see who's the bitch these days and maybe even get Watusi over to referee while we're at it.
And disinformation? Wow, feel free to point out a single post of mine in this thread that constitutes 'disinformation'. Extreme skepticism? No doubt. Repeated requests for simple explanations (which you guys can't seem to answer)? Yep. Disinformation? Not a shred.
Again, I'm a sci-fi guy who believes there are and have been millions of alien civilizations. But nothing at any point in this thread to-date provides even vaguely plausible explanations for how and why a single alien civilization could or would visit Earth. Let alone anyone explaining the utterly implausible, if not insane, notion all sorts of alien civilizations not only have the capability, know of us, but also visit us all the time (aren't we special!). And the time our species has been on the planet is both a geological nanosecond and a cosmological femtosecond - how do you explain the number of visits you guys are positing in the span of just a couple of decades?
Which of that is 'disinformation'? How come it is you guys have no credible answers for those questions? And yet again, why wouldn't any of these 'advanced' civilizations simply stop by a highly public venue and say hello, or at least have the common decency of just turning all the nukes off permanently if they bother them so much? All in all, you guys are heavy on hearsay certainty of "they're here" and incredibly lite on plausible explanations of how and why that is backed by hard evidence of any kind.
Tom, the energy is clearly there for the taking; actually doing it is another story altogether and doing it at near infinite yields yet another (one only has to look at the history and odds of ITER and NIF to see what a stretch even sustainable breakeven is). As for interstellar radiation, I've seen several of the water-ship concepts, but then you're back to infinite energy and time travel if you're going to get such a beast from point A to any significant point B in anywhere remotely near a human lifetime. And it's a big leap for a civilization to make from today's 'safety match' launch vehicles to anything capable of taking light years in stride - and I would posit incredibly rare for any civilization to survive both themselves and external events to achieve such a breakthrough.
P.S. Can't agree that the Constellation program was a good idea - a recycled and half-hearted affair at best. From my perspective we're either doing Mars or we're not, and if we are then we get serious about funding a generation or two of kids to take on that mantle and make it happen. MER showed we can still get the job done if we want it bad enough - fund the sh#t out of going there, turn the kids loose, and it would happen no problem (and the hardest part is already halfway in the bag). But it's a pretty tough sell when you're flushing trillions down the a hole in the desert.
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Skeptimistic
Mountain climber
La Mancha
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Sep 29, 2010 - 08:50am PT
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What do all of these aliens eat? Especially those ones living on the dark side of the moon?
And how about infrared images from the moon showing a heat footprint from this massive base previously mentioned"
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Sep 29, 2010 - 09:22am PT
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Nice reply, healyje.
Homerun.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Sep 29, 2010 - 09:35am PT
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HJ, my, you certainly are the Demanda...
I asked, you have to tell me, or Whaaaa. I demand easy answers!
Let me ask you a question: How come you said the Phoenix Lights were flares where there is a plethora of evidence showing that they were not flares?
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Sep 29, 2010 - 10:51am PT
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Energy is a very touchy subject with more myths about it than any other subject that people get embroiled about. There is no shortage of energy; the physical universe is made out of it. The challenge is energy management. It's like putting water meters on fish in the Pacific Ocean. I have worked with DOE on the NIF and been associated with SLAC.
some good points Tom
I work in the space program and know that it is just not all that expensive or impossible to go exploring off the planet.
please don't try and say this is cheap though. NIF was what about 4$Billion and still no meaningful research out of it yet? don't get me wrong, i have complete confidence that we will learn from it and it will be a useful but expensive experiment. cheap, NO.
water is plentiful on extra-terrestrial bodies. A group of my friends at Ames just proved the moon as a water resource.
and being able to extract that water wold be costly and difficult on earth, let alone in space....
edit:
apology to the other posters here, but RJ has a burr up his butt...
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
I've lost track...
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Sep 29, 2010 - 11:22am PT
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healyje,
now that we all know your opinion, please go do some more homework
exposure to tons of processed intel isn't knowledge, it's mind deadening
i managed the project to build the supercomputer to auto-sort all usaf intel traffic, but that doesn't make me knowledgeable
i've worked inside nasa for many years on a first name basis with apollo astronauts and flight directors, but that doesn't make me knowledgeable
i designed and developed the system integration framework for the constellation program as a member of the core system integration team, but
whether constellation was the right approach is another subject entirely and you already have some of my opinion about how to go into space
i also hobknob with generals and admirals, and the honest ones admit to being kept in the dark as baffled as the rest of us, especially people with first hand experience and old enough to talk freely
i don't have first hand experience here, but i don't reject the experience of friends and family who do
i do have first-hand religious experience, yet find it easier to reject christian mythology
if the pope says it happened, it happened
if usaf says it didn't happen, it didn't happen
it seems that if it didn't happen to you, it didn't happen
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monolith
climber
Berkeley, CA
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Sep 29, 2010 - 11:48am PT
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The cheapness of getting into orbit has very little to do with the possibilities of interstellar travel.
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