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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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the chief is leaving?
well, ok goodbye Chief!
Keep riding and look in on us here very year or so
best wishes chief
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dirtbag
climber
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So long, azzhole...
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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You all on the other hand, never mind. It is obviously way above your levels of comprehension.
he ain't goin' nowhere with that hook so far down his gullet...
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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The Chief, you're like a dog chasing its own tail. Entertaining, but only briefly. You need a new schtick, dude. Your present online character is getting old. Batten knew that a great troll needed to reinvent himself from time to time. It would behoove you to learn from the Master.
Take care.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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The big thing about The Chief is he believes that he is debating. He is not. He is spewing. Sure, he pilfers graphs here and there, but he has never been able to understand the nature of statistics. Ed exposes him regularly in this regard, but he always falls back onto personal insults, which are amazing even by internet standards.
Attacking the arguer rather than the argument is called an ad hominem attack and is logically null. All that these attacks do is expose his desperation and incompetence. This isn't a difficult concept to grasp.
If he would just use his troubled mind, he could debate the actual facts. Unfortunately he doesn't understand thermodynamics, refuses to acknowledge the rock record, and freely admits that he does not respect science. That last point is important, if you understand that this is a scientific debate in the first place.
Me? I don't remember enough physics to be able to address thermodynamics, either, but I freely admit it. The only thing that I can address is the two major greenhouse events in the Earth's past, both of which can be correlated to atmospheric CO2. That understanding is the sole fact that makes me lean more towards the AGW camp. I certainly understand how greenhouse gasses work. I just can't do the quantitative number crunching. With all ideas which I can't grasp, I rely, with healthy scientific skepticism, on those who are authorities on the topic. Science rarely progresses steadily. There are fits and jolts. There are mistakes which are recognized and it is a self correcting process.
I'm very lucky to be best buds with a meteorology professor who is one of the top cloud physicists in the world. We have discussed GW quite a few times, and he, being a good scientist, has some skepticism of his own.
We don't sit around attached to dogma or political ideology. You will never get to the truth like that. You have to be skeptical about everything. From our discussions I have learned that the big risk is that CO2 will cause slight warming, which will cause a slight increase in water vapor, which will ultimately lead to a feedback loop. The Mesozoic hothouse event is something that I know a lot about, and the high CO2 was caused by volcanism in that case. I can look at that event and see that 1000ppm CO2 will be a bad thing for people who live in certain areas. That event didn't happen overnight, so my guess is that we will all be dead before any real impacts arise. I could be wrong on that, though. We are already seeing undeniable warming, and the effects of that warming. The main driver in the cyclic rock record correlate well to Milankovitch cycles, however we are in a cooling phase of those overlapping cycles. Something doesn't smell right.
This country is rather unique in that a political ideology drives much or all of the dissenting arguments. It is no daydream that very early on, ExxonMobil and the Koch brothers donated many millions of dollars to various think tanks in order to attack the findings of climate scientists. That is why most AGW skeptics which you will meet on the street are staunchly political and woefully poor scientists. Our four deniers fall squarely in that camp. It is unusual that political ideology should affect science. The fact is that it doesn't. The science moves right along. That big oil money merely sows doubt in the general public. No real scientist will attach a love of capitalism to their science. The two have nothing to do with each other in the world of truth.
One has to merely read the posts over the last two months to see that this thread is dominated by ad hominem attacks, which logically mean nothing. For some reason, people such as the Chief believe that these attacks actually have some bearing on the topic. These attacks don't. They merely piss people off, and reveal the attacker as a faker.
What we have seen develop here is a total breakdown of logical debate. The Chief calls people profane names, and he has taken that tactic to its ultimate end: He has backed himself into such a corner that he can no longer debate logically. The weird thing is that he apparently believes that he has defeated the science. Yep, he really believes it. He believes that he even understands this grand experiment that humanity is performing on the atmosphere.
While it is plain to see that he is acting the fool, he so blindly believes in himself that he has created a world of his own, one not controlled by physics, but one controlled by his weird ideology. It is easy for an observer to see his foolishness, but his personality problems apparently make it impossible for him to see how he is presenting himself. He certainly isn't debating facts anymore. All he is doing is attacking people personally. If he hadn't dropped out of high school at 16, he might have learned a little about the scientific method.
This thread is an amazing example of how not to approach a scientific question. It is much like arguing the creation of the planet with a young-Earth Christian. It has become exactly like that. TC can't convince anyone based on science. He therefore attacks people personally.
He isn't stupid. He writes fairly well. I have no idea why he openly plays the fool. A psychiatrist could probably answer this.
I pity him. He lives in a world of his own creation. Facts are not important to him. Arguing with him is a futile adventure. All he does is drag us down into his house of cards. It is pitiful to watch.
Back to work. Finding oil for all of us. The question of what do we do in this situation is not clear to me. I've said it before, but I will say it again. I think that we are screwed. It won't cause an extinction. It will just change the landscape in regards to where we can live, farm, etc. Life survived the Mesozoic event. Sure, there was a mass extinction, but life goes on.
Seriously, the internet is mainly powered by coal. I have no answers on what our response will be, but I'm pretty confident that our species is far too primitive to cooperate on a global scale. Fossil fuels are incredibly energy-dense and cheap. I don't see how we can get around it.
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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You're wrong Bruce Kay.
BASE 104's post is about trying to step back and look at the larger picture. It's an excellent overview. Thanks.
I don't agree with the pessimism though. I think we will figure things out. The ~17-year pause/slowdown in atmospheric warming buys us time, hopefully.
As sketch suggested, the newest IPCC projections are for less warming/change than earlier projections, but made with more confidence.
So, we have a bit more time, and we will gain more understanding, year by year.
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Chewybacca
Trad climber
Montana, Whitefish
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Funny thing about personal insults. They tell us nothing about the person being insulted yet they give us a wealth of information about the person doing the insulting.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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YUP.... another loser.
Ad hominem
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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You people are so fking "stooooooopid
ad hominem
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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in the Cheez' own words...
Reagan, he was a tuber. But ya gotta Yabadabadoooodo what ya gotta do So go find some dick to regurgitate that on. But what do you expect from a higher educated moron as yourself....
Don't worry Cheese, I'm there for ya , Fixed for clarity and reality.
http://www.treehugger.com/climate-change/climate-models-calendar.html
..better learn how to recycle your piss. BITCHEN! You loons are seriously pathetic. You are a fear mongering lonely man that has nothing else to do in life other than seek out all the potential negative this issue may create and then frolic's in it.All the while, you live your life business as usual. if you indeed are the "model forecaster" of this entity known as the extravagant AGW ideology, then it is most assuredly safe to say with 100% certainty....Riiiiiiiiiiiiiigt?
Haaaaaaaaaaaaaa.... love it. SEA ICE EXTENT...... For lake tahoe? Hypocrite AND Liar. Obviously a perfect fit for your completely worthless kiss ass lap dogging posts: And believe me, you can not eeeeven fathom how much of a last laugh I have had in all this. Oh it is far beyond hilarious. And it is essential that we PONDER on the worst and not tell the rest of the story in order to proliferate the bullshet so we can promote the ideology and the agenda.What we have to offer is no different than anything any of you WARMIST SCIENTISM ECO GOTTA HAVE THE GOV'T SAVE THE WORLD FREAKS do.
Keep posting slick.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Another round off. Target hit.
hmmm, must be shooting blanks...
retired from? thinking? literacy? this forum? you figure that out with your 'higher educated' BEEEEEE EEEEEESSSSSS?
I'm just the messenger cheese, spreading your message of bilious hate to all the high educated morans, Gotta do something while the kettle boils, might as well spend 60 seconds cutting and pasting your lexicon of wisdom.
gotta go time's up on the library internetz and my shopping cart is double parked,
Thorough reading inabilities AGAIN has passed your persistent ineptness to clearly focus on the rest of the story, Let's change the verbiage to read, "Here's the TRUTH and REALITY"!
But what do you expect from a higher educated moron as yourself....
Fixed for clarity and reality.
Keep posting Slick.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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You and FUKEDINTHEADMENTILIST must lead some seriously boring lives. Or... you are both some of them people you see in the public libraries on the tax payer funded computers with your shopping karts parked outside the main entrance.
Another Ad hominem.
Come on, Chief. You can do better than this. Give me a non sequitur or a post hoc ergo proctor hoc.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Another round off. Target hit.
See? He has no idea what he is saying. This is like dissecting the speech of a 2 year old.
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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"The tobacco industry was faced with a real problem in that the scientific evidence that smoking was related to cancer was very clear, and that if that was applied, that basically would devalue their product immensely. So they formulated the strategy of sowing doubt about the scientific validity of the connection between smoking and cancer.
They had their own experts testifying about the doubts and the incompleteness of the scientific data regarding smoking and lung cancer, and they developed organizations that would promulgate these ideas through the media. They developed the initial strategy of selling doubt in the face of scientific certainty to prevent action.
That strategy is exactly what you see in the climate countermovement. They use the same organizations, the same tactics, and try to sow doubt about climate change as a real, serious environmental issue."
From an interview on PBS with Robert Brulle:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/environment/climate-of-doubt/robert-brulle-inside-the-climate-change-countermovement/
More, about the funding:
... over the period from 2003 to 2010, there was about half a billion dollars went to the organizations that we defined as climate countermovement organizations. So it had varied that in the beginning, 2003, 2004, it wasn’t as much. You see a ramp-up of the funding in 2008 and 2009 and 2010. It increased greatly over that time period.
Who is the biggest single donor that you found for climate [counter] change?
… It is no surprise that the funders of the climate countermovement organizations are the same funders that fund the overall conservative think tanks across the board. …
The leading funders over that 2003-to-2010 time period have been, of course, the Koch Foundation — was a major player early on, not so much now — the Scaife Foundation and the Sierra Foundation.
What’s interesting and I think the most relevant is the rise of the two foundations, the Donors Trust and the Donors Capital Fund, which have the same address, and I treat them as simultaneously the same organization, or “Donors.
Donors Trust ensure anonymity for donations; they collect money, funnel it (launder it, basically) to climate change denial groups.
Original article here. But looks like you have to pay :-(
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs10584-013-1018-7
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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US military to the rescue!
The Clitanic and it's erstwhile rescue ship to be saved!
The Australian Maritime Safety Authority’s Rescue Coordination Centre (RCC Australia) has requested the US Coast Guard’s Polar Star icebreaker to assist the vessels MV Akademik Shokalskiy and Xue Long which are beset by ice in Commonwealth Bay.
The US Coast Guard has accepted this request and will make Polar Star available to assist.
The Polar Star has been en route to Antarctica since 3 December, 2013 – weeks prior to the MV Akademik Shokalskiy being beset by ice in Commonwealth Bay. The intended mission of the Polar Star is to clear a navigable shipping channel in McMurdo Sound to the National Science Foundation’s Scientific Research Station. Resupply ships use the channel to bring food, fuel and other goods to the station. The Polar Star will go on to undertake its mission once the search and rescue incident is resolved.
http://www.amsa.gov.au/media/documents/050113_MediaRelease_PolarStar.pdf
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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UAH, one of the satellite-based (lower troposphere) global temperature series, has wrapped up 2013 calling it the 4th warmest year.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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And yet another utterly ad hominem post. Geez, man, argue about something.
I'll help. CO2 is a TINY part of the atmosphere. It is measured in parts per million. How could that tiny amount of gas suffice in warming the planet?
OK? I've damn near written a post for you. Now please. Post something having to do with the topic. Insults are easy. Anybody can sit back and make up personal attacks. However, they have nothing to do with climate change.
You haven't made a post regarding climate change in quite a while, Chief. You sound like an angry child (with the mouth of a sailor!).
Remember. Insults only make you look stupid. We both know that that isn't the case. Impress us.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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What we have to offer is no different than anything any of you WARMIST SCIENTISM ECO GOTTA HAVE THE GOV'T SAVE THE WORLD FREAKS do.
the CAPS are very convincing. perhaps a bit of BOLD for emphasis next time.
thought you were retired. knew you couldn't slip the hook.
Carry on Slick
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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My coauthors and I are in the last stages of drafting an Arctic sea ice paper this week, so I've been following the indexes although they tend to be dull this time of year. But in case anyone wondered, here is an NSIDC 1-day extent comparison updated to this morning.
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