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wildone
climber
Troy, MT
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Jul 21, 2011 - 12:37pm PT
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relax, reno
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Slakkey
Big Wall climber
From Back to Big Wall Baby
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Jul 21, 2011 - 12:41pm PT
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Gene, LOL great idea and best post of the thread.
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Morgan
Trad climber
East Coast
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Jul 21, 2011 - 12:45pm PT
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Are folks seriously saying there should be no third-party reporting about the second ascent of Wings Of Steel?
Obviously, there are only two up close and personal first-person perspectives on the 2nd ascent, Ammon's and Kait's. And what they decide to do with those unique experiences, thoughts, and photos is entirely their choice.
How many articles and books on the 2008 K2 tragedy have been written by people who were not there on the mountain at the time.
How many judges don't have their own opinion about a case they are ruling on.
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Jul 21, 2011 - 12:54pm PT
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By the way, Richard’s historic Wings of Steel book is worth reading. (Amazon: used from $5.93 see below).
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/082800739X/ref=dp_olp_used?ie=UTF8&qid=1311265894&sr=1-1&condition=used
The occasional religious perorations aside, it is a marvelously youthful and dogged little tale of their undertaking, replete at times with tremendous detail and exploring most of the possible ways in which a pair of imagined underdogs could revel in The Realm of the Slab for a month and a half. It IS a part of our history now and Wings of Steel Scholars can’t really claim their wings without a close read of it.
EDIT 7/21/11: Absolutely seriously, I DO recommend this book. Although I am about as rabid an atheist as one can be, this book is historic and valuable to our art; it's decently put together, and the language is good enough to stand up well in comparison to other accounts from the field. Richard was phenomenally diligent here and it is also a tale from youth, almost picaresque in its nature albeit an Adventist-tinged one at points. Further, the religious parts of it are short and read almost "pasted in" thankfully and are not too disgusting or implausible. Richard poses himself as "A Quitter" in it early on and a lot of the tale then is his struggle and Mark's struggle to NOT quit as they face week after week the tougher consequences of their inexperienced and youthful dreams in the wondrous context of the King Slab, one of El Cap's stranger but gorgeous features. It really is a classic, Pilgrims. It is good enough for Richard to go back and groom the tale again for another edition I think; I do know his writing is quite a bit more developed since those days ---Wings is practically a child-authored piece, you know---and it will be clear coming up soon that their ascent ended up making sense, after a fashion, and must be counted in with all the other storied, kooky lines we have created on the formation.
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Prod
Trad climber
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Jul 21, 2011 - 12:57pm PT
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Hey PK,
I agree that a fully non biased story would be the best, but when does that happen? That being said, I think Pete is pretty good at finding facts, and if he injects his opinion it should be pretty obvious where that is happening. I've not studied Pete's posts, so I may be wrong here, but it seems that PTPP defense is largely that the route is hard and not a bolt ladder. He has met the FA's and says he likes them, and he thinks the shitters are as#@&%es (figuratively and literally) sort of hard to argue that.
I’m interested in reading his story.
Prod.
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TwistedCrank
climber
Ideeho-dee-do-dah-day boom-chicka-boom-chicka-boom
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Jul 21, 2011 - 01:26pm PT
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Somebody is selling a copy of the book for $999. This is all sounding like a boiler room scam to me.
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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Jul 21, 2011 - 01:30pm PT
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Ammon has already said in this thread that info from Pete's press release concerning micro enhancements was 'Wrong' but we have yet to see an apology or a correction on the R&I website.
So I don't have much hope for a more accurate article.
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Prod
Trad climber
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Jul 21, 2011 - 01:54pm PT
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Uh... Turdturner, that is a shity argument.
Prod.
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Prod
Trad climber
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Jul 21, 2011 - 01:58pm PT
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I agree asswipe! But your argument lacks logic. There is a huge difference between the 2 acts. F*#ktard.
Prod.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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Jul 21, 2011 - 02:05pm PT
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After about 30,000 posts on this topic, libelous statements in guidebooks, delusional, spiteful and uninformed ranting over the course of 30 years, all from, except for 5 or 6 folks, people that have never been on this route, it's pretty funny to hear that there suddenly needs to be some sanctity in who writes what.
I think it's pretty obvious people can say whatever they want wherever they want.
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Prod
Trad climber
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Jul 21, 2011 - 02:05pm PT
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I ask you has there ever been any censure from the climbing community for Cosgrove and Smiths thoughtless selfish actions . F**k No. They are complicit too!
Not sure about Coz, but the Kid? Yes. Look at what he did in Clear Creek Canyon, when he bolted plastic holds on a route that he could not send. It was chopped, and written up about in all the mags. Others who know him can comment on tons of flack that he has taken. BTW I am pretty sure the route has been sent with out the use of plastic holds.
Prod.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Jul 21, 2011 - 02:10pm PT
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Turdturner is a nameless, faceless and clearly dickless detractor who started his user name today for the sole purpose of attacking Scott Cosgrove.
Scott has already 'fessed up, paid for his sins, and moved on. That this person would come on and attack from an anonymous user name is the EPITOME OF COWARDICE.
Hey Turdturner - why don't you come down to the bridge and have a beer and talk it over face to face with Scott?
And would you please provide your real name and hometown for us, and please provide a picture on the "Who The Hell Are You" thread?
Cowards and bullies like you will never do so, however. This website is full of plenty of turds besides you, unfortunately.
Such a non-person should be completely ignored, along with everyone else who hurls insults and accusations from a fake, anonymous, or incomplete user name.
Peter Zabrok
Whitby, Ontario
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Prod
Trad climber
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Jul 21, 2011 - 02:10pm PT
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Turdturner = emotional reactionary.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Jul 21, 2011 - 02:14pm PT
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This has to be the best thread ever! It has a life of its own!
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Jul 21, 2011 - 02:22pm PT
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hey ammon-
you know what would set your legacy in stone as a legend?
(someone already said it upthread, forget who)
just keep it to yourself.
I like Matt's advice. Who could possibly think that getting the truth would be any fun? On what evidence? And what are the chances that the truth is going to clear up anything anyway? Of course we would all be free but bored to death that our favorite thread topic has been reduced to facts and history.
So, my vote is that Pete publishes all the stories, writes all the posts on the Web, and takes all the flak, and that Ammon and Kait remain above it all. However, there will still be paparazzi, ambush journalist, and hackers retrieving their phone mail, so Ammon and Kait need to memorize appropriate, above-it-all clichés.
I have pulled a few from reliable sources that will give Ammon and Kait a good start.
Ammon’s clichés:
“Wings of Steel” is not a dinner party, or writing an essay, or painting a picture, or doing embroidery.
SuperTopo posters are paper tigers.
Hooking is not love. Hooking is a hammer which we use to crush the enemy.
Despise the shitters strategically, but take them seriously tactically.
Genuine equality amongst climbers can only be realized in the process of the socialist transformation of the climbing community as a whole.
In general, any form of exercise, if pursued continuously, will help train us in perseverance. Big wall climbing is particularly good training in perseverance.
In time of difficulties, we must not lose sight of our achievements.
In waking a tiger, use a long stick.
Let a hundred flowers bloom, let a hundred hook moves contend.
Once all struggle is grasped, miracles are possible.
Swollen in head, weak in legs, sharp in tongue but empty in belly.
People like me sound like a lot of big cannons.
SuperTopo is war without bloodshed, while WoS is politics with bloodshed.
Climbing power grows out of the silence.
Kait’s clichés:
A hard man is good to find.
A climber can be short and dumpy and getting bald but if he has fire, women will like him.
A climber on a wall is worth two on SuperTopo.
A man's drill is his signature.
All failed climbers should be given a second chance, but by somebody else.
An ounce of performance is worth pounds of SuperTopo posts.
Any time you've got nothing to do and lots of time to do it come on up El Cap with me.
Anything worth doing is worth doing slowly.
Between two evils, I always pick the one I never tried before.
Don't keep a climbing magazine guessing too long – they are sure to find the answer on SuperTopo.
He who hesitates is a damned fool.
He's the kind of climber a partner would have to marry to get rid of.
(Yes, I have sources!)
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Jul 21, 2011 - 02:25pm PT
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Ahh, wicked knight, whence did thee come?
And now gentle reader, we must add jester turdturner to our sordid play!
How tender, how sinuous are the threads connecting the Muir to Wings of Steel.
Is this dark shadow cast upon our midst only as more boisterous talk to the general fray? Me thinks not. Me thinks this is Sir Cosgrove's shunned lover, a woman in clever ruse of a man! A climber she, who too many pounds later, could no longer catch the wandering gaze Sir Coz cast about.
Me thinks she doth protesteth too much!
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Prod
Trad climber
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Jul 21, 2011 - 02:56pm PT
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Bummer I was enjoying our discussion.
Prod.
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Slakkey
Big Wall climber
From Back to Big Wall Baby
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Jul 21, 2011 - 03:06pm PT
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[quote][Bummer I was enjoying our discussion.
/quote]
LOL I was rooting for you Prod it was getting good Mark is right this thread is the best :)
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Prod
Trad climber
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Jul 21, 2011 - 03:06pm PT
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Hey DMT,
Just so you know, of the 40 results for the search "f*#ktard" you have used the phrase 12 times. I've only used it once talking about turdturner.
Prod.
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SuperTopo on the Web
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Let us know!